It depends what you classed PC as.
He was never a 6 so its either 7 or 13 and he did play for england didnt he?

pc never reached his full potential though did he.at his best he was good but didnt do it on a regular enough basis to be considered top drawer

No I agree and I hope Cod'ead doesn't think im being sarcastic.
I was just answering his question (I think).

Only in the Federation Shield tournament with Tonga, Samoa and France in 2006 whilst the Tri Nations including GB were taking place down under. In effect it was a junior England squad, so he's not a "full" international.

That's fair enough I just remembered him pictured in the HDM lining up a kick whilst wearing and england shirt.

I see a lot of young lads who get snapped up by FC, and such is the obsessive nature of the support in our city, they get treated like they've made it when in reality they have achieved nothing. It's easy to ponce about in a tracksuit at 16, harder to cut it at SL. I think there has been a lack of good role models for our younger lads at times; hopefully Fitz has had some influence showing what it takes to be genuienly world class. Imagine the role models available to youngsters at Saints and Leeds in recent years compared with our drunkards and misfits.

I also think we suffer from a lack of decent level for our younger lads to play in; anybody who has seen our academy side play can testify that it is absolutely no preparation for SL. Look at Burnett this year, last season looked really promising, this year can't get a game because of our strength in his position and his form when given an opportunity has been average at best due to not being exposed to a decent level of competition in what is a very important time in his development. Look at OZ, a number of their reserve grade sides could cut it in the lower reaches of SL.

the local talent is now diluted between 2 teams as well,with even more pressure on them to perform.roll models are important but club discipline should help keep all players on the straight and narrow.isnt bigging emerging talent up and then knocking em down an english pastime anyway.some of it must be down to personal drive,mental strength and ambition(as someone posted earlier)but theyre are other factors

That's all down to training, coaching, conditioning and more importantly a mind-set.

The simple fact is that of a given squad of 20 players in reserve grade, in any one year, one or possibly two may show potential. It then boils down to how that potential is developed and probably more importantly, keeping the potential player's head out of the clouds.

In an X-Factor society, where celebrity is viewed as success in itself, rather than the product of success, is there any wonder we have Tommy Lee and his contemporaries already believing that they've "made it"? Or a half-competent half/full back decides he's already the next Ashley Cole?

Think be better for Hull if they also had a team in local league as every one says Under 20's boys playing boys then when come to playing some rough old timer they come unstuck.

Can not beleave a City that produced Markham,Coverdale ,Whiteley's ,Harrison, Taylor ,Lowe,Rose,Crane,Casey and a lot of good other forwards has only produced a hooker in the last 10 years.

This most show it's the coaching or lack off !!

I agree there are issues with the coaching of our young players, and when we do think they`re ready coaches do duck out, partic. with threequarters, and play them out of position. BUT, a lot of Hull fans over-estimate how good they are, and in all honesty, over recent seasons there have been very few young players with the size, skill, and SPEED needed to succeed at super league level.
In comparison, look at the players who come through at Wigan, Saints, and Leeds. Hull might be a hotbed of amateur rugby in terms of numbers, but when, for example, did we last produce a top class centre, stand off, or scrum half [ please don`t say Tommy Lee, all key areas we are desperate to fill?

Sorry Mrs B but isn't Whiting a Fev lad?

Just like another previous poster said, we produced the best young players (how many times did they win the grand final?), it's just that they never made the next step up and this is where the problem would appear to lie!

The question has to be is it the club that is failing these promising young players or like someone else said, is it the mentality of the people of Hull in general?

The fact that both Hull clubs have a lack of real in depth local talent could point to the latter. If this is the case would it be benefical to have someone employed to work with the youngsters regarding aptitude / mental toughness etc...?

the squad for the 2nd round of the play offs fc v wigan

1 Motu Tony
2 Matt Sing
21 Richard Whiting
4 Kirk Yeaman
5 Gareth Raynor
6 Richard Horne
7 Mathew Head
8 Ewan Dowes
23 Tommy Lee
10 Garreth Carvell
11 Lee Radford (C)
16 Willie Manu
12 Danny Tickle

14 Wayne Godwin
14 Danny Washbrook
16 Scott Wheeldon
19 Paul King

Am I right in thinking that the only Hull born players with a GF winners medal are Radford and Wilkin?

didnt lee jackson win an aussie winners gf medal

Ian Kirke with Leeds?

yes with newcastle knights



don't think ian kirke is from hull

He is, well Hornsea to be precise

His dad's a local school teacher.

Forgot Antony Sullivan has one as well.

i guess its still pretty poor showing given the size of hull.we produce half decent kids but generally thats about it,with few developing into top drawer players.is the talent stiffled?

Fully agree and I think the personality of the player needs to be given higher priority than it is currently as potential is nothing without dedication.

Our two professional clubs also need to realise that theres many amateur clubs in the area not just the same 3 or 4 that they get their players from year in year out.

That may be part of the problem we only have a limited number of amatuer clubs producing all our players. Across in Wigan for example there are plenty of surrounding towns with a wider variety of clubs and bigger pool of players to choose.

Lee Richardson made an interesting point about the mentality at a club like Wigan St Pats. He thinks their sole aim is to provide future pros for Wigan and develop players accordingly whereas the Hull based amatuer clubs tend to focus on their own club development and striving to make their team stronger.

I guess he means that St Pats get more pleasure producing pro players (I think 4 ex players are going on tour to the 4 nations) compared to the Hull clubs who prioritise winning trophies.

any ideas who our "scouts" are, I certainly have no clue, it seems Fubar watches Featherstone, Donkey watches East Hull, who else do we have looking for talent?

I think you mis-understood Muddy boots comment....correct me if i'm wrong but what he was saying was that they only look at 3 or 4 clubs as just because who they are, that they are the only ones producing players of a certain standard....what i think he was getting at is that if they looked at some of the other clubs around the area they would find there are many more players, but because of who they play for are overlooked....and he is right as i've experienced this situation several times over the last 15 years of coaching.

I've had lads who play for me and heard of lads at other clubs being told that if they didn't move clubs they would be overlooked....some have moved, but in 15 years I know of 1 that stands out and just could make it, as long as the baying pack keep off his back.