Give over.

For all his faults, i can't really criticise Agar on this one.

No I don't, I make it sound like it is: We're offering Leeds the potential chance of their youngster getting SL action, whilst sending our own to the national leagues. How is this in the best interests of our club?

IMO we should send Broughton back and if we get an injury recall Hall.

Some people just don't get it. Are Hull turning into Leeds' feeder club???

I said that neither will play unless we get injuries. If we don't get any injuries, that leaves Hall playing in the reserves indefinitely. Hall is more likely to develop playing competitive rugby at Widnes than playing in our reserves. Maybe if we get an injury in the backs we will recall Hall, how do you know we won't? In the meantime Hall is far more likely to improve and rebuild his confidence playing at Widnes than in our reserves.

Ffs it was a throwaway remark....you want to lighten up a bit.

The Broughton point is a secondary one, but to continue it, why is he here? If we have a player in the same position on the fringe, he's not needed any longer.

The main issue is the way we have had players not performing for 2 years but retaining their place, with Hall the only player singled out. Personally, I think dropping players who aren't performing is the way to go, and would much prefer to see it happen to everyone.

I'm not necessarily appealing for Hall to be reinstated, just for it to be an even playing field for all. It concerns me that it isn't.

So it seems in both cases.

Hall is not currently cutting it in the first team and the reserves are a waste of time. Going on loan is actually the best thing for both the player and the club.

I dont really agree with Broughton being here but he came when we really short in the backs so I could see the justification in it. Keeping him here now is not necessary I agree.

Being played out of position wont help him...agree about loaning him out though....but will he come back and go in the reserves again?

As it does me but we haven't had any sort of real competition for places for a long time which makes it difficult. From what I have heard from Agar several current players will not be here next season.

I would hope if he plays well at Widnes he will come back and at least make the bench and try to get his place back. If he goes really well at Widnes and doesn't get a sniff of the first team here then I will start to agree that Agar has something against him.

Here's the funny thing, I can actually agree with that. The problem is that we should have done it 2 years ago, but the way we've actually dealt with everything has gone badly wrong. We stuck him straight into the team and expected miracles, then the team went down the pan and he's borne the brunt of criticism because he happens to be someone who makes mistakes. The fact that it's because he's one of the few who actually tries anything different seems to get lost on people. He's then dropped whilst others who make less mistakes (but offer far less) stay in.

He'll never cut it in the first team whilst we stick with the basics only approach. I'd just sooner see the back of that than him.

The problem being that out of the first team squad, we've only got Moa, Hall and Hodgson available for selection and not being picked. If we had Lauaki and the other 6 injured players available, maybe there would be the opportunity to drop more underperfomers.

I think Broughton is only here as last resort cover, e.g. if we get a last minute injury to one of the backs.

We have average workhorse forwards coming out of our harris, but the same ones are still picked regardless of form. Admittedly we now have a few injuries in the pack, but it's not always been the case that other options weren't available.

Playing for Widnes tonight and is amongst the points already, well a conversion

Having said that a lot of his errors are as simple as not securing the ball correctly or not catching it.

Agree 100% with the second part in bold though.

Of the "workhorse forwards" who hasn't been performing?

widnes won 44-18 craig played ok and kicked all but one of his conversions.

Hope he has a good month and comes back to challenge for a 1st team place. Doubt it while Agar is here though.

Me neither just seems poor coaching to me, our only outside back capable of creating something out of nothing and instead of our coach working on his defence and putting some confidence back in to the kid we send him out on loan

Great man management Rich at least Cullen might speak to him

Wouldn't totally agree here, I've seen him do everything right then be out muscled. If he works on his upper body strenth then I'm sure after making a couple of good tackles in a game his confidence would grow? He is however, the only player at the minute who gets the crowd on their feet when he receives the ball.

For a spell last year and a few games early this I'd say Radford didn't deserve his place, and also Tickle was poor for a time last year. Burnett should have been given more of a chance then IMO, but he had to wait for injuries rather than poor form of others to take his chance though, which I find infuriating. Dowes is also struggling ATM, although TBF I'd say fatigue is a huge factor in that and it's about time Maloney got more game time to help him out. In fact I thought both Dowes and Cusack were starting to look jaded about 6 games in and Maloney should have been given a shot far earlier than the Saints away game.

As I've said, I'm not just talking about now, it's the entire past 2 years. We don't seem to change the team unless forced to by injury, apart from in the case of Craig Hall. That is the only point I've been trying to hit home, not that he's being wrongly discarded or even deserves to definitely be in the team, just that he deserves neither any more than anyone else in the squad.

Fair point, I agree he isn't big enough yet. He's still young though, people develop physically at different rates. Hopefully he'll fill out a bit soon.

And I did say [inearly[/i all, I understand he has other flaws in defence (like being a 'grabber' at times as well).