Here's a stat for you 99.9% of posters on here couldn't give a crap!

I'm aiming my posts at the 0.01% who do.

I did contribute I said he was AVERAGE....



And your posts are so informative



Being articulate or rude to posters who you feel do not contribute to your liking does not win the debate my friend

The problem with that is that he clearly isn't.

There's a valid view that he hasn't produced his best form often enough, for a variety of reasons. But to dismiss a player with Berrigan's obvious skill, class, and list of achievements as 'average' is just wrong.

I may have to rethink my figures!

Some people like these stats, some don't. I also think most of the people on here base there opinions on watching the games, not stats. If someone wants to look at them and take something from them, then fair enough. But don't criticise them for it.

Why not? Again, a genuine question. Why should someone's opinion go unchallenged if I feel it's incorrect?

But he never actually gave his opinion on who he thinks is better! merely said that the stats were "interesting" not right, wrong or correctly gathered.

I know he has skill and a list of achievements, and is a recognised world class player, I have seen glimpses of his ability..However based on his term with [uHull FC [/uI consider his performance collectively as average. The arguments that he has been shuffled about over his term here does not work for me considering a player of his calibre, Whiting is a prime example of a player who is shuffled about.
I do not think Berro plays consistently with heart like a player like Whiting does, some-times over the last few seasons he has looked like he cannot be ars*d, he is not fit enough to perform 80 mins and imo he has been an expensive let down.
Lastly it was interesting that they had a clear out due to the culture that had developed, surprisingly he was/is one of the main culprits in that culture, and not a lot has changed there, maybe if he cut that out he could perform 80 mins


Sorry but Pension seeker sadly comes to mind....

You should of thought on before signing up with that username!



Maybe "Whiting's Wench" was more appropriate!

he obviously isnt though is he, and to actually state he is makes you look like a newcomer to the game!!

All that and you simply could have put 'i wont believe any stats that disprove my theory and will aim to discredit the stat at all costs but will try to prove my credibility by mentioning education and employment'

Which is a little more reasonable. Although now you're going to have to define what you mean by average. Average compared to other members of the squad, average compared to other players in SL, or something different entirely?

My belief is that Berro has been average and inconsistent whilst been at FC although his career would show that he has been a world class player. Does that mean he is still world class now? It's up for debate i guess.

So, basically, you're admitting that you can't counter any of the points I've made and are attempting to move away from the subject of the debate to avoid having to engage with what I post. I'll take that as a compliment and a sign that you aren't capable of providing a worthwhile argument in opposition.

It's a shame because I'd like to have the debate, but it obviously isn't going to come to fruition.

Berro was termed world class due to an ability to cover multiple positions and at a high standard. I personally only considered him world class at stand off (before Lockyer took his slot at 6) and then at centre where he made most of his rep honours. That said, he's a QUALITY hooker IMO and barring Rangi Chase, I wouldn't exchange for any other SL 9.

Not at all. I was simply a bit bored of the conversation if i'm been honest. It's the Berrigan thread not the statistics thread and i've had this debate so many times over the years its unbelievable. Anyway, i'll respond as you say you want a debate.



My understanding of what your talking about here is methodology and how this can skew results or not. I wouldnt call this context. I'd call context the analysis/interpretation of results to understand what they mean and what they should be used for. You'd be surprised at the board meetings where i've taken statistical reports how much value and context is derived from the debate. The debate answers the 'so what' question which is what i would call the context.



I was interested in a debate about Berrigan and whether he has been value for money. From an early stage it was clear that our views were polarised and we weren't going to progress the debate. You didnt want to entertain the stats other than rubbishing them yet at the same time you wanted me to quantify my belief that Berro had been average. How?



What youve done here is have a written debate to add context and challenge the methodology. I fully get this. The context around Berrigan and Houghton is what i was wanting a debate about in the 1st place.



I'm not a fan of the external factors that may sound arrogant either so i'm not going to counter this point if thats ok.

On reflection after i've posted the epic reply i think it's important to mention something too. I'm focussing on the data as a usable output where as your talking about the process of capturing valid data as an input. The conversation i'd had with Kosh earlier was that yes you can challenge data if you dont trust its validity due to the methodology been unknown but at the same time it doesnt mean its wrong because its unknown. My view is that however the data is captued i'm trusting as been consistent across all the data and all players which is why i'm focussing more on what the data is telling me. Your challenges all appear to be around not trusting the data so not even debating what it means.

This is a very one eyed angle on why Houghton makes so many tackles and makes your point slightly biased IMO. Although I am sure teams send traffic at Houghton maybe because they believe his lack of size may help their team with the wrestle, quick play the ball etc, I think you may find another reason which is complimentary to Danny.

Back in the infamous KC derby in 2007 when Rovers put 42 points past us one of Morgans main ploys was to send as much traffic through Willie Manu. Not because he thought Manu was a weak spot in defence but because he knew what a threat Manu was with ball in hand and wanted to take as much petrol out of his tank as possible whilst he was defending.

I have no doubts whatsoever that teams see the speed of Houghton around the ruck as a major threat and thus play the same game plan that Morgan did at manu. Tire the kid out to lessen his impact when Hull have the ball.

No stats available for coaches tactics so cant prove either way.

Why do some people get the idea that Rangi Chase is a hooker?



I would love Hull to sign Chase as a 6!

He played 9 a lot in Oz. I'd love him as a 6 though.

Rangi Chase is a poor mans Benji Marshall!

Only the same reason Swain made so may tackles, but no he was a machine for doing so wasnt he

Interesting point well put.

Fact is berrigan was recognised as a world class player when he came over here, was still playing rep footy and should, probably, be the best player in SL based on his previous record, ability and form.

The fact he has not reached anywhere near the highs he did in Oz is disappointing but there are obviously reasons for it which I doubt any of us really know