I defended Hall to the hilt. Today was the last straw for me. Out.

i'm sure once agar goes you'll see all of the players step up. It cant be easy playing 5 drives and a kick when you know as a player that it doesn't work

Actually with all the injuries we have if we actually did play 5 drives and a kick but did it properly with a hot chase and fast defensive line we would do better. As it is we don't have any structure at all and rely instead on off the cuff garbage which finishes with the likes of Hall, and others, coughing up possession by chucking the ball forward or straight into touch. Either that or give it to Willie and see how he gets on.

indeed, I think we could all accept playing 5 drives and a kick rugby with the injury list we have, if it entailed 5 good drives, and a good kick and chase...

not 3/4 limp drives (the ones not carried by Moa, Manu or O'Meley our only meter makers) a dire kick and no chase.

Before the injuries we weren't playing 5 drives and a kick. We were at least trying to move the ball about. Since the injuries we have [itried[/i to go back to it, but as Staffs FC points out we aren't doing it right.

There are many, many things wrong with Agar's coaching. A fixation with 5 drives is not one of them.

i disagree. We've played a boring 5 drive and a kick type of game for a couple of years now imo both under agar and sharp. How much decent ball does our back line get?

Agar gets a lot of the blame but the players whose poor defence and shocking handling (How many errors have we made in ther last two games?) must take a big part of the blame too.

It would need Jesus himself to improve Craig Hall to the standard required for a top side at the moment.

Are we a top side at the moment??we would struggle in NL1 with agars super team,,lets get a grip people we will never be that team with agar in charge

I was takign about us, some think if Hall moves to a another top club Saints a under a good coach he will become a superstar, just not sure he is god enough for SL, too many issues in his game.

Briscoe has played all his career under Sharp and Agar and is progressing nicley.

Some of Hall's issues may be down to coaching but maybe he just isnt dood enough, I have seen loads of players who look outstanding at youth level, but can never make that step up.

Briscoe has flaws as well and should have been dropped along with hall but wont happen because of his postcode.

Ever since Cooke left we've had no scrum half in most games, and when we've had a scrum half we've often had no stand off. How much decent ball do you [iexpect[/i our backs to get under those circumstances?

On the few occasions where we've had a halfback pairing of even moderate ability we have played some attractive rugby.

The fixation with 5 drives and a kick exists largely in the minds of the fans, and is more of a reaction to a lack of creative personnel than a deliberate tactic. We simply haven't had the team or the skills to play anything else for the majority of the last 2/3 seasons. The bigger problem is that we can't even do THAT properly.

OK we know you arent a big fan of Briscoe, you mention it enough



High ball is an issue, but seems to improve on that, haven't cost us a try in recent games?

Far better all round that Hall, better go forward and defence.

Would be one of the first names on my team sheet at the moment.

We are not doing 5 drives and a kick simply because we cannot hold the ball for a full set or at least that is the way it seems to be a most games now. When a team has injuries they need to revert to the basics and if they cannot even get the basics right there really is no hope.
When Tansey first came he looked 100% better then has for the last few weeks, and it seems to be the case with the majority of our players. If it was just the odd player then i can accept it is down to the player and not the coach, but the fact all our players look ordinary at best means it is surely down to something else.

I think the club needs to clear out the full coaching staff and bring in a top class coach who can then sort out his own backroom staff.

I didn't think Washbrooke had a poor game yesterday . Maybe because the rest were sh17e ? , He made a couple of line breaks only to turn around and find no backing up at all. Hall is going to find himself on the sidelines again as soon as we get bodies back. He isn't getting any better under this clown in charge.

Good post. Our best ball player in recent times has been Manu creating 2 or 3 tries with passes at the line. It's the job of half backs to do it but we don't have anyone other than Long who can. Washbrook looked reasonable at 13 for a few minutes yesterday but as soon as he went to 6 it was back to normal.

Do you not think that the personnel we have left should have the ability to pass the ball whether they are used to playing with the person they are passing to or not?

I would like to think that professional sports people do have the skill to do more than shove the ball up their jumper and run it in. If they cant pass the ball it beggars belief how they are making a living in this sport. I'm fed up of hearing about injuries as an excuse for players to lack the core skills of the game.

In footballing terms we could do a lot worse than bring back Cooke for a year thats for sure, forget the history and silliness , just football ability and experience..
Like the club did with Sullivan !!!

Please don't use Sully's name in relation to Cooke ever again.

I know what you mean, I apologise for that, Clive is a true legend and Paul a very silly lad indeed however as i said in playing terms we could do a lot worse than have him back for a season... and he wants back because he knows he made a huge one too !!

is there anyone on here that has never made a bad choice they have lived to regret ??

If the club brought Cooke back it would see a lot of people staying away. He never just made a mistake he dropped us in it big time and us fans have very long memories. We don't give Briscoe stick nor any of the others who have crossed over. It was the way he left that left a very sour taste in the mouth.

Do you really think that all that's required to play an expansive game is basic passing ability?



Not that we seem to [ihave[/i a basic passing ability a lot of the time.



There's a difference between the team lacking the skills to implement an expansive game plan and deliberately avoiding one. IMO we have the former situation and not the latter. That's partly a legacy of poor retention and recruitment, partly poor coaching, and partly bad luck with injuries.

Your 2nd sentence is what i was saying. We dont show the basic skills which are the 1st step towards an expansive game. (i never said the only contributing factor to an expansive game)

I still find it impossible to believe super league players lack the basic skills to throw the ball about a bit.

The evidence is there for all to see every time we give it a try. Our passing is slow, laboured, and inaccurate most of the time. I'm pretty sure that's not a deliberate tactic.

Well if we dont work on those core skills in training it's kind of an involuntary deliberate tactic isnt it?

Sad to say but it is true, we must have the worst line speed in SL. It takes forever to get from one end to the other. But surely that is something the coaching staff should be seeing and sorting out, hell it is basic stuff you learn as a kid.