I'd like to think you are correct. I'd like to, but...

I can see the same old excuses being trotted out for our lack of achievement, together with a firm assurance that Rich will have it all sorted for the following season.

I've been saying this for years, there's a real 'jobs for the boys' culture at the club. As you say though it's unlikely to change. If someone were to buy the club tomorrow and have a clean sweep of all all the youth, coaching, fitness and physio staff I reckon there's only Webster who would be likely to get another job at a SL club.

Yep, I know I can't back it up as it's just a feeling but I can see the Berrigan situation used as an excuse if needed, for some reason his position seems safe regardless, The timing of Agars extension last season said it all to me, I know we ended up doing ok last season but we were playing some real dross at the time, that on the back of the two poor previous seasons it just seemed criminal, the only possible justification was the reported England interest, but that was still a weak case.

I mentioned the other day that the Westerman signing worries me in this respect too. Agar knows we desperately need cover in the halves so what does he do? Goes and spends a 6 figure sum on strengthening arguably our strongest position in the team. Bearing in mind that Fitz will be gone after this season, that looks very much like the signing of someone who knows he'll be here in 2012.

Or, the signing of someone who recognises how infrequently talent like Westerman becomes available, and is guided by the administrators of the club in his selection?

Daniel Anderson, or Steven Folkes.

Quite possibly. I'm just saying that if I were Agar and I felt under real pressure to produce the goods next season or face losing my job,and I knew I had a significant transfer fee to spend, I'd be doing everything in my power to spend it on a halfback rather than strengthening our strongest position. It's just a theory but I don't think it looks good.

maybe it wasn't agars choice to bring westerman in? If Kath Hetherington got wind that westerman was available she perhaps saw it as an opportunity too good to pass up

exactly as i had been trying to point out!!!

if westerman had gone to saints,or wigan,or wire(as rumoured by their fans)people would have moaned about how unambitious we are!

Would be interesting to know what the tipping point would be. Whilst, like most, I'd hope and expect this season so to be Top 4 or you're out, I can't help thinking that another almost top 4 and play-off defeat would be enough for him to keep his job.

The issue for us as supporters is this, though. We generally believe Agar's not got the credentials a club of our size deserves. We generally would settle for a poor season if we thought this would be a call to arms to the board to go out and a get a top class coach. The reality is that there is no evidence whatsoever that getting rid of Agar would result in a top class coach coming in. Many of us have challenged Rule on the increasing importance of a top class coach as a key differentiator in the salary cap era and he's disagreed with us. It's baffling, I know, as the investment would pay back pretty quickly if we got some success, but I just can't see it happening. The successor to Richard Agar will more than likely be our #1 target when Peter Sharp was appointed, i.e. Steve McNamara.

Even if you accept that to be true (which it certainly isn't in the case of Maguire), I don't really understand what point you're trying to make? If we sacked Rich Agar (

) and undertook a mission similar to Wigan to identify and recruit the best available candidate for the job, are you saying the fans wouldn't find that preferable to keeping Agar on the basis that his replacement wasn't a household name?

The only argument you seem to be making is 'better the devil you know'?

Agree with nearly everything you say for once, Rule has said the same thing to me and it makes me question what he's doing running a sports club if he thinks the head coach isn't important.

Surely the board wouldn't be stupid enough to appoint McNamara though? Other than him being a local lad or in the unlikely event he wins something with England I just can't see how they could possibly frame it. At least when they appointed Agar he wasn't already a proven failure.

From my point of view, I just want my confidence/belief back that the team can turn up and win in big games.

I don't actually care if the club finish 8th...so long as they are in great form come playoff time and are capable of beating anyone. Instead we have become a club that grinds out drab results,and finishes mid-table yet can't perform in the big games.

In 2005 for example we played very poorly some weeks and were a very erratic side. But we famously played Saints off the park in the CC, beat Leeds and won the cup, beat Andrew John's Warrington etc those are the kind games you will remember for the rest of your life...not a drab low scoring league game against Quins.

The point is no one knows who the right man is, where one aussie suceeds another one fails, Brown and Maguire were not big names with big reps but they have done really well. It's always a bit of a gamble, either way until Agar goes it's not relevant.

Spot on, Agar will have had his say but it has to be backed by the BOD and regardless of who the head coach is Westerman is still an asset to the club and will benefit from a year under Fitz.

Spot on, I know it gets stated a lot but we really are such a dull team to watch, any result (except the two Saints games last season) is ground out, in a way it's a testament to Agar that at home we were quite strong and constistantly beat the teams we should have, that's why we held a decent league position even though we were terrible to watch and were one of the lowest points scoters in the competition, you can't argue that really Agar did well with what he had last year,that said it won't get meto part with my season ticket money.

Might you also argue then that one of the board's motivations for going for Westerman was to try and ensure that Agar plays a more attractive style of rugby this season? This is a really important year for Westerman after he appeared to stagnate a bit at Cas, I can't see the board being happy if Agar risks the development of the club's expensive new 'asset' by playing him out of position for most of the season.

We don't even know where he will play yet so that is all fairly pointless tbh. I think he will play backrow, looseman and possibly at 6 depending on the injury situation.

I think the club and Agar would be happy to bring in a high quality young player and even if for a season we have to shuffle him about he will be ready to play 13 for 2012 and beyond when Fitz leaves.

It would be a pointless signing if RA doesn't play him 13. He's not a 6. If/When Long, Horne get injured i really hope he doesn't move JW to 6. Although knowing RA he'll make about 6 changes for 2 injuries.

The fact he was called a means we are bound to see him playing there when the injuries strike.