Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. There more interesting to debate that having no stats at all.

I'd like to think that if they are collated poorly that they are done so consistently meaning they are still comparible to some extent.

Technically my eyes tell me he's streets ahead of where houghton is ever likely to get to in his career

and the point you missed...

I totally agree he is a better player hands down, however he has not produced that form for Hull FC, barring a few glimpses of his brilliance.
For the record I believe he played more Representative rugby at Centre as opposed to Hooker, and I when I have seen him play centre for FC (Not often) I can understand why, he was very good.

See what i started now. I should have kept my interesting statistical link to myself.

I tend to agree. I was just indulging my fondness for pedantry.

I agree too. I just found the statistical information interesting.

You managed to draw me in and I got insulted





Thats it from now on Berros Bitch or not, as far as debate about him goes




Unless he starts to hit his straps of course

The only straps he's hit since he joined us are those holding his fragile shoulder in place.

(awaits the tirade of absue)

Stop it

The point you miss is that you don't need stats to tell that houghton is a one trick pony and berrigan is much, much better than him

If you understood the stats you'd probably see that Houghton doesnt appear to be a one trick pony.

I tend to think if we had a decent coach and any sort of gameplan we'd have seen much more of berrigan. Must be strange to be one of the world's top players and be coached by some guy who would struggle to improve your average under 9's side

True, but I've never heard of a no trick pony

I agree.



Harsh.

Harsh but true. Won't ever make a top hooker IMO

Tommy Lee?



A stat I would be interested in is how the team performs (points for and against) when each player is on the pitch.

He's a young guy that is developing both physically and mentally. Naturally he doesnt have size but he is gifted with speed.

I think he still has every opportunity to develop into a top class 9 and he has the right attitude to do so. Nowhere near the finished article but he gets better each season he plays.

Did you hear Mark O Meley on KCFM this week?

He was asked by an Aussie agent/manager who he thought could make it in the NRL from our young players and he said Danny Houghton.

Not saying O Meley's word is gospel but I reckon he knows more then most about it.

O'Meley must know how to read the stats.

Class

:2qh9yuu4

The debate around them gives absolutely no context. What gives context is knowing exactly what they are measuring, how they are collected and how they are analysed, and that still doesn't help a great deal as, without wanting to repeat what Kosh said, there are so many variables in place that it is impossible to measure anything accurately and for it to have a consistent meaning.

:2qh9yuu4

I did try to get that sort of debate started with my first couple of posts on this thread, but you didn't seem interested in getting involved. And then berrigans bitch decided to add nothing of worth.

I'll just take the two examples you mention there, stripping the first of any sort of statistical value and providing a little context for the second, but still nothing like the full pitcure.

Berrigan might have only one assist. He might not have. What's an assist, in the context of these statistics? Does Berrigan getting out of dummy half, drawing a marker and the A defender, before putting O'Meley through the gap created count as an assist? That was 30m out from the line and resulted in O'Meley giving a pass to Horne to score under the sticks. Is an assist only the final pass/kick in a try scoring move? Is Berrigan giving a pass from dummy half, 5m out, to Yeaman running an unders line an assist, therefore? Would make a 95m break from your own line, only to be tackled inches short, count as an assist if the dummy half at the next play dived straight over? Would getting a quick play on the halfway line, which lead to a break in the 'black hole' and subsequently a try count as an assist? Would fumbling the ball (backwards? Who knows, it may be a poor decision by the referee) that was picked up by a team mate and then grounded count as an assist?

I think you can see where I'm going with that.

On Houghton making more tackles, I'll leave out what defines a tackle for now (a key piece of information, but it would only result in a huge amount of writing that would probably be ignored anyway). What I will say is that Houghton is targeted in defence by every team. Every chance the opposition gets, they run at him. At him, not round him. Why? Because he doesn't have the ability to tackle high, round the ball, and put in the work in the collision to work the carrier onto their back for a slow play. He tackles low, round the ankles and as a result, usually ends up at the bottom of the ruck, allowing a quick play often against an unset line and unset markers. This is also one of the main reasons he makes so many marker tackles because, as happens with Radford as well, teams target their tackles to scoot against. That means the next play is kept tight around the ruck and they make their tackles when they are running back to meet the rest of the line which hasn't had chance to move up due to the quick play and the scoot.

:2qh9yuu4

As I said before, I don't give a sh[size=100:2qh9yuu4i[/size factors that sound arrogant, more than anything), I've spent a hell of a lot of time working with statistics. They formed a large part of my degree, particularly quantitative methods modules, and the collection, analysis and interpretation of statistics at a (fairly) complex level forms a large part of my job. I'm not against the use of statistics, it's vital in many, many areas and is of huge importance to our civilisation, but I am very much against shoddy statistics being presented as evidence and given credence. There's not much I dislike more.

at the last fans forum,fitz said exactly the same,and got a huge response from the audience!!!!

That's probably your most worthwhile post on this subject so far.

A complete lack of willingness to engage with, again without wanting to sound arrogant, a post with a bit of thought put into it.