Been out of the country, so didn't see the Cas game...

my view on things currently is that I'm happy to be 4th, and happy that we've improved our form despite several injuries.

however to take a cynical view on it, Catalan and Cas are struggling down at the bottom and therefore are games we'd hope to win anyway. I am also very concerned that we struggle to win without Long, and that it'll only take a knock in training, a late hit on the field or simply be marked out of a crucial game (such as a playoff) and that's our season over. We can't just rely on one man to create things.

I think the Saints game will be a big test, and will give us a better indicator of how our season will pan out.

Its not a view i share but i kind of understand where people would be coming from with that view. Initial defeat for the greater good and all that. I'm sure the Man Utd fans would take 2 months of solid defeats if it meant the Glazers sold up and cleared off for example. As i say, im not in that camp but sometimes desperation makes people do and feel in non-normal ways.

Why would anyone be that desperate though? Regardless of how unconvinced anyone might be about Agar the fact is that we're currently 4th in the table despite our annual injury crisis and likely to finish with a decent playoff spot. It seems more like petulant foot-stamping than anything else TBH.

I guess different people have different tolerance levels and individual beliefs etc.

What exactly is it that Crooks, Last and Pope have failed at?

I agree about Andy Last his record with the reserves (u20's/u21's) is outstanding 3 finals, 2 titles and currently top of the league again.

Not wearing "Agar-Out" shirts?

wrong again.

Last runs a successful u21 side in terms of results but his job is to provide players for the first team, when was the last time a promising prospect reached their potential in the first team?

Pope is in charge of the fitness and conditioning of the players, that speaks for itself.

Once the player becomes a 1st team member then he's under the guidance of the 1st team coaching staff. Last has provided plenty of quality for the 1st team their individual progress thereafter his not his responsibility.

well said, however i would also add this..
RA said at the start of the season, " judge me on the results on my team this year " and so far we are sat in 4th in the table potentially looking at 8 points from our next 4 games if things go to plan.
We have lost to teams that have upset other so called big guns this term as well so have faired same as others .

so far he has done very well given the horrific injury situation recently, now we are getting bodies back lets watch as we start to fly a bit!!

How do you think Rich will get on tomorrow with "with that sounds good to me" in eurovision.

No he isn't, he is a physiotherapist, Ben Cooper and his assistant are in charge of the fitness and conditioning.

And how can Andy Last be solely responsible for a player not reaching his potential?

He coaches the 21'/20's and if it is like the vast majority of other clubs the reserves coach has one single most important thing which is to make sure the players at that level are getting coached the exact same techniques and plays as the first team to make the jump up if and when required an easier one.
If a kid cant pass or catch at 20 he wont be playing for Hull FC.

I do not know how some people think sometimes!!

On the evidence of the last 2 years, most of the 1st team struggle to catch and pass.

Here's some questions for you: Do you think that the rugby league hotbed of Hull, with it's large and thriving youth and amateur scene has produced enough top class players in the last 20 years? When was the last time the area produced a real star of the game? Do you believe that the young kids in Hull are any less talented than those in leeds, wigan, saint helens, even oldham?

On the evidence of the last 2 years, most of the 1st team struggle to catch and pass. WRONG BUT HAVE LACKED HALF BACKS WHO CAN DICTATE!

Do you think that the rugby league hotbed of Hull, with it's large and thriving youth and amateur scene has produced enough top class players in the last 20 years? YES APLENTY
When was the last time the area produced a real star of the game? LIKE HORNE YOU MEAN? THAT DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY A REAL STAR, TO ME ANYONE WHO REACHES SL LEVEL IS A REAL STAR
Do you believe that the young kids in Hull are any less talented than those in leeds, wigan, saint helens, even oldham? SAME IN EQUAL NUMBERS PER CITY

It depends what you class as a real star of the game.

People in St Helens would probably class Jon Wilkin as a real star, maybe not as highly as they rate James Graham but I bet they think the coaches who brought him through are very capable blokes and are grateful for it.

The fact that Kirk Yeaman and Richard Horne both played for GB was not an accident, they were picked on merit. Love him or hate him Paul Cooke has at some point been held in high regard by fans of both Hull clubs and played International Rugby.

I also feel the question about Hull comparing to Wigan, St Helens or even Oldham is a little unfair given the fact that there are so many Super League clubs from Hudds to St Helens that can cherry pick kids from all over that area. I do not doubt that each club has some lads born within the boundaries of their local area but I also would bet they have kids from across Lancs on their books the same as Hull and Rovers have youngsters from Fev and Cas.

The area that the clubs you mention have to share is much bigger than Hull and also has many more conference amateur sides to select from amongst other things. Off the top of my head I can only think of two Schools in Hull that have good RL sides nowadays, there are more across Lancashire.

Given that Hull KR have only recently been able to retain the very best kids they find then I dont think Hull is doing too bad.

They have not produced a World beater for 20 years but they have produced plenty of SL standard players.

If you think Hull or Rovers are not doing enough maybe you could suggest how to improve? Not having a dig I am just wondering what you think they could do?

I dont like the question but who exactly would you bring in to either club to unearth and coach these children of the hotbed into International standard players? The best coaches in the area are more than likely already at the clubs or feeding the clubs at service area level. I cant think of many coaches who are doing great things in Hull Amateur Rugby that dont already speak to Hull or Rovers on a regular basis and have players in their teams on scholarships.

There are a bunch of very talented amateur coaches out there in the area who with limited funds and time do a cracking job , the issue at present in the Amgame is that because RL is a second tier sport in the UK it does not get the sort of funding that other sports do but given the quality of the staff at many amteams in the area and the Hornes and Yeamans they constantly turn out I think they are doing a Sterling Job personally and also with the advent of the SL as it is now with no relegation and the correct reduction of overseas players it will give these kids the chance to come through more and more and the clubs the ability to nurture them better .

My mistake then, Pope the physio should be sacked because of the abnormal amount of injuries we suffer and have done for the last few seasons. Cooper and his assistant should be sacked because our fitness levels are nowhere near that of the top clubs, or are you going to tell me it's coincidence that since he left Hudds for us their fitness levels have improved way beyond ours?

As for Last, as JTP says for a big club in a supposed rugby league hotbed we simply don't produce anywere near enough good players and he has to take some of, if not all the responsibility for that. Forgive the football analogy, but look how Benitez got rid of Steve Heighway from the Liverpool academy because it wasn't producing enough youngsters that were up to the required standard.

That's how I think, it's really not that irrational!

Radford?

Just out of interest, I am told that Webster had created a detailed dossier of Cas and their weaknesses/strengths prior to the game. Something I think that we can all agree appears to have been sadly lacking in recent times. A positive step and hopefully he will bring some nounce and tactical awareness to FC. Agar can then concentrate on what he does well..................................

Something John Kear was expert at, when an assistant coach.

When Bomber first brought him here, the very first thing he did was hand each of the then squad, a detailed dossier on their strengths & weaknesses, telling them that was the sort of information the opposition studied before each game.

OK, I'll make it easy for you. How many players has Hull produced in the last 20 years who have been GB/England shoe ins? Do you believe that this represents a lack of quality players available or a failure of the clubs' development systems in turning raw talent into the finished product?

I think it's obvious that Hull as an area isn't turning the undouted talent into top quality players. It seems to me that there are regularly kids from Hull who are dfeemed good enough to play internationally at junior level, so why are none of these coming through and replicating it at senior level. I don't expect all of them to, likewise I don't expect none of them to. I don't know what the answer is or even if there is a problem, however it seems to me that an area where so many kids are playing is under represented in terms of producing international standard players

agar was over the moon with it. He used it to prop open his office door last we when it was really hot and he got a nice draught through

As a result of players strengths highlighted in the dossier that job has now gone to Craig Hall, he can make a "beep boop" noise when people walk through the door.

Have you ever thought it could be you, someone (I am guessing) that has no qualification in any medical/sports conditioning related subjects that is getting it wrong and could actually be bad luck?

First people were blaming Paul Hatton for injuries, this is the same guy who is now commanding a very handsome wage with Ulster Rugby Union and has been offered some pretty amazing jobs since too.

Now you are blaming Ben Cooper, a very highly regarded conditioner amongst coaches, players and his fellow conditioners.

And then we have Simon Pope, a guy with a very impressive CV for being a PHYSIOTHERAPIST, someone who gets players back from injury, not someone who has a magic wand for making them immune to injury!!

So all of these people are wrong and rubbish and you, a guy I presume has never attended a training session, has never asked a player of any standing in the team what they think of these people or has never studied anything to do with the qualifications these people have plenty of, are right?

And to compare Lastys job to that of Liverpool Academy, a team who I imagine spend something in the reigon of 3 million a year on their youngsters if they match some of the other Prem clubs, is laughable.

Is there any wonder the club dont like having to explain themselves when the people asking the questions seem so thick!!

4th in the Table with a real possibility of staying there. They are doing awfully well to mask the fact they are unfit, injured and badly coached!!