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| Quote ="JMR"Totally agree with all of that!
Are you now suggesting Allam has perhaps [iinstructed[/i his right-hand man to buy Hull FC in order to re-negotiate this troublesome lease?'"
And bought hull kr so he can make us play at caravan park for free? |
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My thoughts on the situation are that Allam is 100% his own worst enemy in terms of communicaton and Pearson realises this from a PR persepective and has tried to bring some clarity and take the ridiculous emotion out of Allam's argument.
In my opinion, Allam is not as wealthy, certainly in terms of liquid assets, as some quarters would have us believe. He's bought Hull City, perhaps for philanthropic purposes, but more than likely with a view to buying the stadium and creating a commercial development too. The truth unravelling from that situation is that he's had to cover a lot of unforeseen liabilities.
The only way he can try and get the economics of the deal and its projected cashflows back on track is to build the commercial development, and relatively quickly. The only way the commercial development stacks up financially to give him a return is to get given a £40m community asset (ie 1/3 of the total investment required) for nowt from the Hull taxpayer. Mrs B you are wasting your time being a wife and mother you should be running this Country
 I would vote for you
How does he pitch for this?
1) Articulate clearly and transparently that he want to build a [ucommercial development[/u on West Park to continue to support City and extend the KC, perhaps considering in measured terms the planning difficulties that he would work with the council to treat sensitively, but painting in measured terms the employment opportunities it might represent? Or
2) To fabricate an illusion of making a [usporting gift[/u to the people of Hull (with unspoken and impossible/unpalatable conditions attached), winding the myopic and sensationalist local media into a nodding dogs frenzy, then failing to have anything approaching a sensible discussion with the council, producing no plans or deal but a borderline blackmail approach to acquiring the stadium, with some rather clumsy, but, surprise, surprise, highly publicised cash donations to other causes in the city?
It's the fact that he's gone for 2 that has cost him, but that's no one's fault but his own. That and the fact that his follow-up is dummy spits in the press and lunatic ramblings about the red herrings of toffee apples, comas, asbos etc.
What Pearson tried to do this week was 1. He believes that the city, and Hull City, who employ him, would be better off with this development in place and, possibly, that the council should make a contribution. At the moment negotiations will go nowhere as there are too many stumbling blocks:
a) No detailed plans have been brought forward
b) The Allams, for so-called businessmen, have taken a ridiculous stance on the "negotiations", ie they won't and are imposing ludicrous pre-requisites to an adult discussion.
c) There are onerous obligations of the existing lease arrangement which Cllr Geraghty suggested would be waived in the event of a sale, meaning co-tenants Hull FC would have no protection from eviction.
d) The land is protected by covenants and a Royal Charter. These are not insignificant barriers.
e) The deal would be hugely complex, with loads of work needed on conditional clauses. What if Allam gets the KC for nowt, uses the cash for players for City and just doesn't build the development at all? You can't then force him to build just because he's got the freehold of the KC. What if the swimming pool is loss-making and they close all the sporting elements to leave a Burger King and Carphone Warehouse on the so-called "Sporting Village"
f) Planning policy dictates that in terms of sequential preference, if you're going to build a retail/commercial park, you build something in the town centre first. I have recently spoken in my job to a head of regeneration and planning in the north west, and the appetite for out of town developments when vacancy rates in city centre retail units is so high, has never been lower. I've not been into Hull City Centre for a while, but I understand that throughout the city from Whitefriargate through Princes Quay and across to the Prospect Centre, there is a high vacancy rate, and some retailers are vacating unit on Kingston Park next to the Ice Arena. This itself IMO is because planners have allowed a proliferation of retail development beyond the population's requirements. Building yet another commercial unit out of centre will just suck more life out of the city centre.
g) It's a community asset which has its own benefits in terms of control and any sale would have to be at fair value.
To Pearson's credit, he's trying to put the deal into less ridiculous and emotive terms and articulate what it actually is. For the first time we heard that it had to be a commercial development to pay back, which is something Allam has never spoken to in his ridiculous "gift/asbo" speeches over the last few months, so we're finally getting some clarity around what it would be. IMO (and I did say this weeks and weeks ago), this is nothing to do with Olympic swimming pools and ice rinks, which sound like, when challenged, they've been binned anyway, but all to do with a new retail park, and I've heard nothing this week to change my mind. If the Allams want to do this deal, Pearson's the man to broker it and they should stay out, but personally I believe the genuine barriers in a-g above will mean it won't happen.
I don't see a conflict of interest for Pearson, unless, as people have said, he is a complete and utter liar, which I don't believe he is. He thinks developing the stadium and surrounding area, with a watertight tenancy transfer to Hull FC, would be progress. I just think there are far too many justified hurdles to it happening.'" |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"icon_lol.gif
My thoughts on the situation are that Allam is 100% his own worst enemy in terms of communicaton and Pearson realises this from a PR persepective and has tried to bring some clarity and take the ridiculous emotion out of Allam's argument.
In my opinion, Allam is not as wealthy, certainly in terms of liquid assets, as some quarters would have us believe. He's bought Hull City, perhaps for philanthropic purposes, but more than likely with a view to buying the stadium and creating a commercial development too. The truth unravelling from that situation is that he's had to cover a lot of unforeseen liabilities.
The only way he can try and get the economics of the deal and its projected cashflows back on track is to build the commercial development, and relatively quickly. The only way the commercial development stacks up financially to give him a return is to get given a £40m community asset (ie 1/3 of the total investment required) for nowt from the Hull taxpayer.
How does he pitch for this?
1) Articulate clearly and transparently that he want to build a [ucommercial development[/u on West Park to continue to support City and extend the KC, perhaps considering in measured terms the planning difficulties that he would work with the council to treat sensitively, but painting in measured terms the employment opportunities it might represent? Or
2) To fabricate an illusion of making a [usporting gift[/u to the people of Hull (with unspoken and impossible/unpalatable conditions attached), winding the myopic and sensationalist local media into a nodding dogs frenzy, then failing to have anything approaching a sensible discussion with the council, producing no plans or deal but a borderline blackmail approach to acquiring the stadium, with some rather clumsy, but, surprise, surprise, highly publicised cash donations to other causes in the city?
It's the fact that he's gone for 2 that has cost him, but that's no one's fault but his own. That and the fact that his follow-up is dummy spits in the press and lunatic ramblings about the red herrings of toffee apples, comas, asbos etc.
What Pearson tried to do this week was 1. He believes that the city, and Hull City, who employ him, would be better off with this development in place and, possibly, that the council should make a contribution. At the moment negotiations will go nowhere as there are too many stumbling blocks:
a) No detailed plans have been brought forward
b) The Allams, for so-called businessmen, have taken a ridiculous stance on the "negotiations", ie they won't and are imposing ludicrous pre-requisites to an adult discussion.
c) There are onerous obligations of the existing lease arrangement which Cllr Geraghty suggested would be waived in the event of a sale, meaning co-tenants Hull FC would have no protection from eviction.
d) The land is protected by covenants and a Royal Charter. These are not insignificant barriers.
e) The deal would be hugely complex, with loads of work needed on conditional clauses. What if Allam gets the KC for nowt, uses the cash for players for City and just doesn't build the development at all? You can't then force him to build just because he's got the freehold of the KC. What if the swimming pool is loss-making and they close all the sporting elements to leave a Burger King and Carphone Warehouse on the so-called "Sporting Village"
f) Planning policy dictates that in terms of sequential preference, if you're going to build a retail/commercial park, you build something in the town centre first. I have recently spoken in my job to a head of regeneration and planning in the north west, and the appetite for out of town developments when vacancy rates in city centre retail units is so high, has never been lower. I've not been into Hull City Centre for a while, but I understand that throughout the city from Whitefriargate through Princes Quay and across to the Prospect Centre, there is a high vacancy rate, and some retailers are vacating unit on Kingston Park next to the Ice Arena. This itself IMO is because planners have allowed a proliferation of retail development beyond the population's requirements. Building yet another commercial unit out of centre will just suck more life out of the city centre.
g) It's a community asset which has its own benefits in terms of control and any sale would have to be at fair value.
To Pearson's credit, he's trying to put the deal into less ridiculous and emotive terms and articulate what it actually is. For the first time we heard that it had to be a commercial development to pay back, which is something Allam has never spoken to in his ridiculous "gift/asbo" speeches over the last few months, so we're finally getting some clarity around what it would be. IMO (and I did say this weeks and weeks ago), this is nothing to do with Olympic swimming pools and ice rinks, which sound like, when challenged, they've been binned anyway, but all to do with a new retail park, and I've heard nothing this week to change my mind. If the Allams want to do this deal, Pearson's the man to broker it and they should stay out, but personally I believe the genuine barriers in a-g above will mean it won't happen.
I don't see a conflict of interest for Pearson, unless, as people have said, he is a complete and utter liar, which I don't believe he is. He thinks developing the stadium and surrounding area, with a watertight tenancy transfer to Hull FC, would be progress. I just think there are far too many justified hurdles to it happening.'"
That's a really long post. I think I'll quote it to make the thread longer |
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"That's a really long post. I think I'll quote it to make the thread longer'"
Some long words in it too. Good for me.  |
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some more beautiful words in sir adams programme notes today. in adam we trust.
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| Quote ="looking in":k1kued7nsome more beautiful words in sir adams programme notes today. in adam we trust.'" :k1kued7n
Another one with more to say about Hull FC than his own club
looking in
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:59 pm
Total posts: 117
Most active forum |
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Just on a point here can I just point out the fairground is NOT protected by a Royal Charter however the Fair is a Charter Fair, and as such I believe it can be challenged should anyone try to discontinue it.So if push came to shove it would have to be moved and there is no other site for it in Hull nor could the cOUncil afford to do it. Its to long and involved to explain here so see next weeks Diary to find out why!
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| Quote ="The Dentist Wilf"Just on a point here can I just point out the fairground is NOT protected by a Royal Charter however the Fair is a Charter Fair, and as such I believe it can be challenged should anyone try to discontinue it.So if push came to shove it would have to be moved and there is no other site for it in Hull nor could the cOUncil afford to do it. Its to long and involved to explain here so see next weeks Diary to find out why!'"
Surely they could fit the Fair and all the necessary car parking between Rover's South Stand and their pitch!!!! |
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| Quote ="Staffs FC"Bloody hell that was like having 2 diaries in a week
You make some valid points - at the end of the day Pearson can show support of the general idea safe in the knowledge it wont happen and the fact it wont affect him or FC at all as a result in my opinion.'"
True. There's another way of looking at it, too:
Working for the Allams and knowing of their plans Pearson would know that the future sale of Hull City once they are commercially viable and own their own stadium would not be enhanced by a sitting tenant. I believe there is leverage in the council's concerns that a change in ownership would make our lease vulnerable and what's more, it's in Allam's interest to have us out. This is bourne out by Allam ignoring us while making 'philanthropic' gestures to other sporting bodies, merely saying that his gift to us is allowing us to play in his stadium.
Pearson knows our future under Allam as a landlord is shaky, and that the old board are too apathetic and financially weak to protect their position. Being in at the inception of the stadium, he knows the vision included Hull FC and feels honour bound to protect that. He also sees Hull FC as a sleeping giant that will realise it's potential under the right ownership and has always had an eye on us.
With the Allam's new plans, he decides the moment is upon him, so he buys us, keeping it secret from that Allams until the day before. As owner, he knows he is in a far stronger position that the old board to protect our tenure at the stadium if it comes to it. Luckily, it appears that the council have pre-emptied it - for now - but as others have said, policies and leaderships of councils change. |
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Mrs Barista, I salute you.
Yet again, another balanced, articulate, well-reasoned post which addressed most of the pertinent issues with a clarity befitting Pearson himself.
I still think there could be something more machiavellian going on in the background however and, until Pearson breaks his links with the Allams, he will never truly douse the flames of suspicion over his exact motives.
But, time will tell on that I guess.
For the time being, thank you for responding to my genuine queries without stooping to the name-calling and the childish 'troll alerts' which, unfortunately, appears to be the default position of too many on this board when a 'difficult' question is asked!
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| Quote ="JMR"
For the time being, thank you for responding to my genuine queries without stooping to the name-calling and the childish 'troll alerts' which, unfortunately, appears to be the default position of too many on this board when a 'difficult' question is asked!'"
I think you would be taken more seriously if you spent more time on the Rovers board asking similar 'difficult' questions about million pound loans and lack of building work progress personally. |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"
It's the fact that he's gone for 2 that has cost him, but that's no one's fault but his own. That and the fact that his follow-up is dummy spits in the press and lunatic ramblings about the red herrings of toffee apples, comas, asbos etc.
'"
What was the "coma" comment, Mrs B? I've missed that one. |
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| Quote ="JMR"Mrs Barista, I salute you.
Yet again, another balanced, articulate, well-reasoned post which addressed most of the pertinent issues with a clarity befitting Pearson himself.
I still think there could be something more machiavellian going on in the background however and, until Pearson breaks his links with the Allams, he will never truly douse the flames of suspicion over his exact motives.
But, time will tell on that I guess.
For the time being, thank you for responding to my genuine queries without stooping to the name-calling and the childish 'troll alerts' which, unfortunately, appears to be the default position of too many on this board when a 'difficult' question is asked!'"
Which team do you support this week? If that's not too 'difficult' a question. |
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| Another [url=http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Councillor-astonished-Allam-s-KC-Stadium-comments/story-13461697-detail/story.htmlresponse from Mr Geraghty[/url in today's Wail (tucked away in the back half of the real paper (in contrast to Allam's protestations that his £40M freebie will not be forthcoming which made the front of the paper second only to the shocking Brough news)).
Speaks volumes again. This bit stuck out the most for me:
Quote ="Councillor Geraghty"He wasn't even prepared to show us his plans. He said they had cost him £3,000 and they belonged to him.'"
It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so scary that some people are still championing the man as a credible person to trust with something of this magnitude. |
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| Quote ="WormInHand"It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so scary that some people are still championing the man as a credible person to trust with something of this magnitude.'"
You're not wrong there. How the hell did he expect the council to react favourably to his approach ? Unbelievable really. |
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| Quote ="WormInHand"Another [url=http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Councillor-astonished-Allam-s-KC-Stadium-comments/story-13461697-detail/story.htmlresponse from Mr Geraghty[/url in today's Wail (tucked away in the back half of the real paper (in contrast to Allam's protestations that his £40M freebie will not be forthcoming which made the front of the paper second only to the shocking Brough news)).
Speaks volumes again. This bit stuck out the most for me:
It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so scary that some people are still championing the man as a credible person to trust with something of this magnitude.'"
It's mad, isn't it? Seriously £3,000 plans for a scheme of £112m? A decent planning consultant would charge at least £100 an hour, so less than a week's work. It's beyond incredulous. Is it done in crayon? Bet if you scratch the surface, the "Sporting Village" is actually a 1-hole Crazy Golf course next to the recycling bins in the car park of the monolithicTesco hypermarket that would be West Park. The speed to bin off the swimming pool and ice rink speak absolute volumes. Quite why the HDM can't apply any sort of realism and see the guy's a loon is inexplicable. |
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| John Meehan
In tomorrow's Mail: #HullKR chairman Neil Hudgell has interesting views on #HullCity owner Assem Allam & his council critics.
The guy's just given him £1m. Bet that'll be an impartial view. |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"John Meehan
In tomorrow's Mail: #HullKR chairman Neil Hudgell has interesting views on #HullCity owner Assem Allam & his council critics.
The guy's just given him £1m. Bet that'll be an impartial view.'"
I'm wondering if he'll mention that in the 1st sentance, just to set his frame of reference as it were.  |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"John Meehan
In tomorrow's Mail: #HullKR chairman Neil Hudgell has interesting views on #HullCity owner Assem Allam & his council critics.
The guy's just given him £1m. Bet that'll be an impartial view.'"
cannot wait for this! |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"It's mad, isn't it? Seriously £3,000 plans for a scheme of £112m?
A decent planning consultant would charge at least £100 an hour, so less than a week's work. It's beyond incredulous.=#000040 Is it done in crayon? Bet if you scratch the surface, the "Sporting Village" is actually a 1-hole Crazy Golf course next to the recycling bins in the car park of the monolithicTesco hypermarket that would be West Park. The speed to bin off the swimming pool and ice rink speak absolute volumes. Quite why the HDM can't apply any sort of realism and see the guy's a loon is inexplicable.'"
We'll never know, 'cos Assam's [inot sharing[/i  . [iHe[/i paid his £3k. It's [ihis[/i ball, not the council's.
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"John Meehan
In tomorrow's Mail: #HullKR chairman Neil Hudgell has interesting views on #HullCity owner Assem Allam & his council critics.
The guy's just given him £1m. Bet that'll be an impartial view.'"
The photo of Grudgel in the mail tomorrow wearing his Fez and the photoshop'd pyramids in the background will be a bit of a give away. Maybe he's to announce camel racing for next years half time entertainment at the 'MSG Super Dome' or whatever it's called now. |
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| Quote ="Mrs Barista"John Meehan
In tomorrow's Mail: #HullKR chairman Neil Hudgell has interesting views on #HullCity owner Assem Allam & his council critics.
The guy's just given him £1m. Bet that'll be an impartial view.'"
Jesus wept Meehan council critics?
WTF? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 7355 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2008 | 17 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
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|
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|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 378 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2013 | Oct 2013 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
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|
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I would vote for you 
. [iHe[/i paid his £3k. It's [ihis[/i ball, not the council's.
