Exactly what I meant, you put it much better

I wouldn't even have him to the 17 at the moment.

Made 3 crucial errors on sunday that allowed Bradford back in the game.

He does about 1/2 good runs a game that is it.

TBH i don't think anybody hates him as he gives is all but a very large majority don't rate him

Which is their call, I happen to like him and think with a better coach we could get far more from him.

Very happy with these signings but I agree with Paul that a "quota" hooker didn't seem all that necessary, given what we already have with houghton/Obst.

We need at least two new forwards because, as someone has already said, we are looking light in numbers there and have had a relatively injury-free season in the forwards.

Fitz's replacement will have to be real quality because his contribution is absolutely immense and just cannot be easily found.

Think Tickle will step into Fitz's role tbh. Not getting into the LF argument so saying in terms of work ethic etc he will really step up.

Very happy with Tickle, Manu, Westerman as a backrow. Dare I say it, as good as any in SL but after those three, we look very light indeed if Fitz and Lauaki leave.

The front row also concerns me because, even if/when Moa and O'Meley are confirmed, it only gives us three props with yet another 1yr decision to make on Dowes.

In an ideal world, 1 prop, 1 backrower and replace Dowes with better, if possible. Finding 2/3 British forwards will be very difficult indeed which leaves me feeling very concerned about next season's pack. Hopefully we have irons in the fire.

I'm not making any assumptions about any of our signings as someone has already stated the times superstars come across and fail then 2nd choice NRL nomarks come across and are a revelation

Dobson. has much as I dont like him hes done wonders for rovers.
Crossman. came across with big raps and NRL ring did sweet F A.
O'meley. to some extent, many said he couldn't cut it anymore and was washed up. revelation here.
Orford, well, just ask Bradford

whilst Heremaia is coming into discussion with the signing of Seymour, does anybody think Heremaia will be used as our starting hooker with Houghton interchange hooker for the last 20min ?

FWIW i'm not sure i would have chosen to sign Heremaia but it seems like a good way to use them both

I think your all forgetting something here. The team next year will still be coached by Mr Agar. We could have 17 Cameron Smiths in the team but we would still go backwards.

Nail on the head for me! I've been saying this for 2 seasons now. Hame as a player under Agar is a waste of talent and quota spot, yet under a coach that utilised his assets, he just might be worth keeping. As Agar seems to be glued to his coaching position at Hull, we may as cut our losses with Hame - sad i know but true!

If Fitz and Lauaki leave, and we want to replace Dowes for better, where on earth do we find three forwards who have the sufficient quality when we have no quota places available?

For me, the answer to that question will make or break our 2012 season.

Being a Nulla fan he was really good in 2008 when they finished 3rd, Nulla were known for their defence though more than their attack but in SL i think he'll do fine.
Does have a drinking problem though,and i mean a proper drinking problem, i think he goes to their version of AA, hopefully though he's turned a corner.

Mckinnen potentially ,The best signing of the them all ...if he stays fit. Seymour is a decent signing without popping corks . Heremaia is a waste of a spot.

I think the seymour signing was a result of long's injury problems. Had long stayed fit then he would have got another year to ease ellis in.

None of his previous coaches have got much out of him. He should be a world beater with his physique but just doesn't put it all together for some reason

The fact that Seymour has played for teams that are lacking the stars of some other teams is a good thing as he has a proven track record of making 'average' players seem better unlike Orford who was surrounded by stars at Melbourne and then Manly.

As for Lauaki his problem was that he has never enjoyed defending and has proved that time and time again when playing and is a passanger for most of the time he is on the field.

Dowes will stay I should think, so we only have to find two.

Spot on Paul as you say if Fitz does goes Tickle is ready to step up and cover his workload. I actually think Tickle is our most under appreciated player.

I've said before, but I'd still like to see us make a move for Johnson from Wakefield. Would provide good competition for Dowes and Radford and is potentially longer term.

If Wakey lose their franchise he could become hot property due to the lack of quality available.

as good as it gets when it comes to kicking !!!
with all the other halves and thought process we now have for next year FC have a full compliment of pivots and playmakers all over the squad for the first time in years!!!

We just need to make sure they aren't playing behind a dominated pack.

For 2012, for SO, SH and 9 we have the following

Horne
Obst
Ellis
Heremaia
Seymore
Houghton
Nicklas

Would Ellis have moved to Hull had he known there were to be so many senior players vying for the No. 7 shirt?

Will Horne be used more sparingly?

Good to have competition for places, but where we have not recruited well in the halves in the past, have the club gone over board this time?

So it's possibly worthwhile getting in early to try and tempt Wakey to take the money. Or I personally would try and offer Obst back if we could, they've lost Jeffries again and we don't have that much use for him next season by the look of it.