But this avenue is clearly flawed as nothing changes so what option do coaches have, I try not to get on Ref,s back but the inconsistency flowing into the game needs addressing, it is a problem which needs to be dealt with if the only way to do this is to speak out, so be it.

But in todays game the referees are now Full Time Professionals

and they appear to be worse in the overall consistency from game to game and ref to ref. Senior was right when he said about Silverwood and the arrogance as Cummings and Co have this in abundance due to the fact the sport couldn't run without referees.

The fact we are still so short of refs for the SL tells its own tale about it being a closed shop etc.

The game is moving on every season yet the officials dont or WONT!

Here here!

You help with a youth team and you drill them not to argue with the ref and
they call him SIR ( even thought we all know his name is *@&*#~!$ ) . The club can bring this up at the monthly SL meetings as well, they after all pay the wages of these refs. I just do not agree with speaking out publically because all itrs going do is Rich will get a fine and he will make a public apology. The next time that ref is at what of our games he is ahrdly going to give us 50/50 calls is he.

Net result = zero

Away teams definately get the rough end of the stick

For me and I hear what Ian P has to say, but Agar has shown a bit of passion and some frustration at what was going on and I say good on him!!

Referee's as I have said before are now the power brokers in the game…no chance to criticise, no chance to comment, and immune from being sacked/disciplined! OK there are limited channels but when it comes to the fans views they are bombproof! When did you last hear of a Referee being brought to book by the RL?

The fact that it is also a closed shop, with just the chosen few allowed in, smacks to me of nepotism, and they really do need a shake up, although it seems that as far as the RL are concerned, they are totally above any sort of sanctions. Their actions of late at the play the ball concerning laying on are totally against the spirit that the season started with, and who knows what the 'Rules' will be this week?

Every home crowd boo's the opposition for laying on, why? Because they don't know what the tacklers are allowed to do and not to do!

Wigan got penalised on Friday for not playing the ball properly when the player concerned clearly waived his foot at it! What was all that about? If we went back to touching it with your foot everyone would be clear on the rule. It used to be the rule and players trained to do it properly it did'nt slow the game down, because they trained for it! Again as fans we don't know what the rules are, or we do, but we don't know what the interpretations to the rules are to be by any given referee on any given weekend!

Four things I think should happen

1 The referee's should have a clear promotional structure through the leagues so that the good referee's can break into the closed shop!
2 The rule book should be adhered to, to the letter, it might cause a few whistles at first but eventually everyone will know what they are doing on the field as we would do on the terraces.
3 Referee's should stand in line with the defending team and not two yards behind at the play the ball. then we would all be able to see when folks were on side. Some stand back some don't what chance have we and the players got!
4. The current referee's should not do everything, Video refs. should be selected in panels of three and be made up of ex players and ex referee's all trained up etc.
5. There should be a panel of ex players and referee's who watch games throughout the season and then make recommendations at the end of the years as to ways that the rules could be simplified FOR THE BENIFIT OF THE PAYING PUBLIC.. Rugby Onion has done this to great effect! Our game has a lot of grey areas as it it (Forward passes, knock on's and players playing at balls that are kicked at them, being just three) without us inventing more areas for conjecture by bringing interpretations to rules into it.

I don't say these things will stop every problem in the game but it would I think be a start.

just my thoughts! (Too much time on my hands)

P.S. Well done Agar!

Of course we teach youngster to respect the ref..however this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with respect, it is about challenging inconsistencies within the game, as I have already mentioned the correct procedure is failing and if it takes coaches like Agar to raise the issue via other channels so be it. I pay good money to watch my team, the minimum I expect is consistent reffing, so well done Agar for raising the issue for the fans.

Net result for inconsistent refs=zero!!

Something has to be done about the messing about in the ruck it is becoming a joke and putting a major slur on what was once an open and exciting game to watch.

Rich will take his punishment if he has too, because that's him through and through, but Stuart Cummings really needs to take a long hard look at what is going on and especially what makes one of the most level headed coaches in the super league come out and say something is wrong!

Hull got penalised at every opportunity on Friday night and which was definitely aided by the Wigan fans complaining everytime they where tackled.

Cummings needs to get a serious grip before he turns this wonderful game into a farce that sends people away in their thousands.

He shouldn't be trying to influence an official at half time

Well done Rich you were exactly right to do so. Bollox to political correctness.

Quite right. I would sack him personally for not having the gumption to have it out with Alibert before the game kicked off.

Believed was the word used, where does it say he was trying to influence anyone?

He was not trying to influence anyone, at 24-6 down and so behind the eight ball it was a bit late for that, he was trying to get some clarification about what Alberts interpretation of what Wigan were doing! He was as frustrated as we all were! We were there and saw it! He should not have done it but if by doing so it draws attention to this stuff that is ruining our game then its worth while, he'll take his medicine, but I for one am glad he did it!

A few months a go Cummings had a web site where you could E mail him questions about his decisions and those of the referees. Now its gone and what do we the fans get....zilch!!

Agar is right If I wanted to watch wrestling I would stay at home and watch it on Sky ..Before people stick up for the refs remember you earn respect ..This lot of refs are not in the starting blocks ..They answer to NOBODY ..Out of this lot the Lad that had Rovers game had a good game ..Give him 2or 4 more game and he will be told to tow the line and be crap .. All fans want is the ref see both sides and not listen to the crowd like that thing we had at Wigan ..

Disagree completely he was right to do it. Otherwise we'll end up with this farce where tackling players lie on the tackle looking at the referee waiting for the call to MOVE becoming the norm for the forseeable future. If enough players coaches and most importantly fans voice their displeasure often enough we will go back to players being expected to get off the tackle after the call of HELD, which worked as well as anything ever will.

I'm waiting for the first time a referee gets hauled before a disciplinary panel for accosting a team manager on his woeful coaching and the fact his team appear to have been trained to slow a game down by dubious means.

Agar and every other coach has a facility to criticise referees. What they don't have, as Ian P has pointed out, is a facility to accost referees during the process of the game and vent their frustrations on them.

If our players are too bloody thick to realise what's going on after 10 minutes of a game, it is not within the referee's remit to start instructing them.

Totally agree. Besides the refs have far too much to think about themselves what with ensuring that a 20m restart is taken from the centre of the pitch not outside the line of one of the posts and remembering that if a penalty is awarded and the hooter goes they cant call time and walk down the tunnel. It's complex decisions like that that need to be made which make you glad you aint a ref.

Here's an idea Mr Agar, why not coach your team to do it properly instead of just holding down and giving penalties away. Your lot didn't even have the ball long enough in the first half for it to be a problem. If Hull were able to wrestle well there's no way he would be complaining to the ref at halftime. Putting pressure on the ref in this way should get him a nice little fine and rightly so.

Wigan, cheating, who'd have thunk it!

Thank you, it's always refreshing to listen to yet more armchair refs

That's OK. At least this armchair ref knows those two laws. Pity Alibert didn't.

you see the thing is agar complained about holding down at the PTB when FC played Cas a game which we won, so this cannot be seen as sour grapes just cause we lost. It needs sortin quickly as all it is doing is infuriating fans, players and coaches.

Halibut was his usual awful self on friday and that is not sour grapes because we lost (We lost because Wigan were a much better side on the night). However Agar made his point after the Quins game which i am sure was followed up with something official.

We then get the same ref as the Quins game and yet again he continues to have been told carry on as normal Thiery because you can do no wrong whilst I (Mr Cummins) am running the show.

Its obviously happened against Hull before, why doesn't he learn from it?

What, learn cheating is acceptable?

Sorry, rather we played the game and entertained people, not bored them and brought a set of ladders and a cage in for the "Royal Rumble" last 15 minutes.

Amazes me the "win (something) at all costs" of fickle Wigan fans.