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| Quote ="DannyB"Yeah because replacing one player gives the other 12 on the pitch special powers
pillock.'"
So it was co-incidence that we were better in both attack and defence after the weak link was taken out of the firing line at half time was it?
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| Quote ="MrPhilb"So it was co-incidence that we were better in both attack and defence after the weak link was taken out of the firing line at half time was it?'"
What about Smith,Maguire and to a extent Peacock then...what was they
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| Quote ="fc baldy"What about Smith,Maguire and to a extent Peacock then...what was they'"
All poor especially the first two but the coach made a decision at half time and it proved to be the right one.
What its done for the young lads confidence who knows. I for one hope he isn't cast out and is given the chance to redeem himself next week
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| Quote ="MrPhilb"All poor especially the first two but the coach made a decision at half time and it proved to be the right one.
What its done for the young lads confidence who knows. I for one hope he isn't cast out and is given the chance to redeem himself next week'"
Plenty of big games ahead of him dont panic. He was on the end of the weakest defensive set up possible, he will learn from that. Wont get picked ahead of Lee Smith next week though IMO.
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| Quote ="PAUL M"2nd half - when the aussies switched off as the job was done.'"
I think the Australians are too professional to just take the second half at a canter and some credit should be given to England in the second period.
I don't remember 'The Invincibles' letting up and I don't suppose their ethos has changed from the early 80's.
The improved performance of the backline in the second half was on the back of more dominant forward play and the fact that Smith was moved out to the wing.
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| Quote ="Captain Dave"I think the Australians are too professional to just take the second half at a canter and some credit should be given to England in the second period.
I don't remember 'The Invincibles' letting up and I don't suppose their ethos has changed from the early 80's.
The improved performance of the backline in the second half was on the back of more dominant forward play and the fact that Smith was moved out to the wing.'"
Are you for real ?
That is exactly what they did yesterday and I bet they got a real battering in the changing room afterwards for allowing England back in.
Yesterday was the clearest example you will ever see of a team thinking the game is wrapped up and taking their foot off the gas too early.
Oh hang on, ok the second clearest example.The first was when Wakey visited Cravan Park and made Rovers look very silly !!!
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| The Australians were blowing out their Harris's in the second half. THAT was a big reason they didn't have the same intensity as the first half, we on the other hand got better and didn't flag as much.
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| Quote ="MrPhilb"Right decision was made showed by a much better second half performance in attack and defence.
I'm just glad it wasn't fox on that side you lot would have butchered him yet as it was one of your own he did nothing wrong'"
Hello Dopey, shouldn't you be playing seven a side with your mates? You really are clueless.
The "right decision" was to take off, or at least castigate (which Smith did) the players that actually caused the problems to start with I.e. Smith, McGuire and the back row forwards that went AWOL.
It really didn't matter who was on the wing as he would have (like Briscoe did) faced 3 or more attackers.
If you actually watch the 2nd half, the gaps that were so apparent in the 1st half suddenly disappeared. Yet again more proof that this was nothing to do with the winger.
For me the only mistake/s Briscoe made was to place too much trust in his inside 'defenders'
Even in a poor Hull side he has never been so exposed as he was yesterday and this was the reason he couldn't/didn't react accordingly.
I for one wouldn't mind if Forest Fox gets his chance against the Kiwis, after all he is a 'recognised' winger- Hopefully he’ll have a better inside combination from an attack and most importantly a DEFENCE point of view.
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| what i thought was funny about the eng aus game, when the video ref was making the decisions, living on a pray came on and i just giggled because at the time i thought england was living on a pray but to their credit they made it a bettert score line to look at... quite random but x factor has just reminded me.
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| if its already been mentioned sorry but i thought it a disgrace bringing young brisco off yesterday when after watching on tv today i went to the game ,you couldnt really fault the lad ,it was smith and maguire who missed tackles and left the lad isolated yet smith went into his postion ,eastmond was great in the 2nd half ,Danny is great young lad but hes not good enough for this level and never really has been ,when the try line is on offer Danny Maguire is the fastest thing on two legs but when hes got to chase back to make a tackle hes not got the pace
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| Quote ="Kosh"McGuire was England's worst player by some distance, and he was certainly at fault for those tries. Smith also shares the blame IMO for coming inside, leaving his winger stranded and facing multiple overlaps time and time again.
Wasn't that impressed with Peacock defending on that side either, although to be fair he's not a second rower and wouldn't be comfortable defending in that position.'"
That's an excellent point about Peacock... I'm afraid I was too busy shouting "get that useless McGuire off" to notice.
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| Quote ="downtheante"That's an excellent point about Peacock... I'm afraid I was too busy shouting "get that useless lover McGuire off" to notice.'"
said that yesterday, JP if playing 2nd row shouldn't have been defending the same side as Inglis was on,surely it should have been Ellis on that side, that said mcGuire was hopeless how many missed tackles,poor kicks,wrong option,forced passes was great all the leeds fans around us defending him and everyone else cheering when he was taken off, shouldn'tbe in the team again imo
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| Anyone who blames Briscoe for England's first half performance, or who thinks that his substitution was the key factor in a better second half, is either a one-eyed to$$er or clueless about RL. Or both.
That is all.
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| Quote ="Kosh"Anyone who blames Briscoe for England's first half performance, or who thinks that his substitution was the key factor in a better second half, is either a one-eyed to$$er or clueless about RL. Or both.
That is all.'"
General Zod blames him
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| Quote ="ComeOnYouUll"General Zod blames him
'"
I rest my case.
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| At this level of rugby any weak link or mistake is usually punished. In this case young Tom made the mistake of thinking that Mcguire & Smith can tackle anything bigger and faster than my gran.
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| Quote ="MrPhilb"Right decision was made showed by a much better second half performance in attack and defence.
I'm just glad it wasn't fox on that side you lot would have butchered him yet as it was one of your own he did nothing wrong'"
Explain what the difference was then please?
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| I was at the game on Saturday, and for anyone to blame the tries on Tom Briscoe or to put down Englands 2nd half revival to him being substituted is a moron.
The first four Aussie tries came through the defensive line between the centre (Smith) and 2nd Row (Peacock). McGuire was inbetween the two, and to say they play at the same club, their cohesion and understanding was atrocious. Plenty of times there'd be 4/5 England players around the ruck leaving a 3 on 5 / 4 on 2 out wide. What could Tom have done, he was marking his man (Morris), who didn't get a sniff all half, except for his try where Tom was isolated - that said, the Aussies didn't really need to shift it as far as Morris.
Coaches say that defending at centre is the hardest position to defend in, and moving Smith to wing on Saturday, proved to me that Smith couldn't hack it there against the Aussies. I think both our centres lacked size and would rather we had a player of Gilmour or Senior's physicality there.
I just hope that this hasn't dented Tom's confidence.
Other points about the game: Sinfield I thought was brilliant, as was Crabtree and Burgess. Tomkins had a great 2nd half once the players realised what he could do. McGuire aweful, Peacock needs to improve, Shaun Briscoe I thought played well, especially in attack 2nd half. The changes I'd make for next week would be to take McGuire out and either Shenton/Smith for a bigger bloke. Hopefully Roby has taped the game and taken some pointers from Cameron Smith on how to play hooker.
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| Quote ="MrPhilb"Right decision was made showed by a much better second half performance in attack and defence.
I'm just glad it wasn't fox on that side you lot would have butchered him yet as it was one of your own he did nothing wrong'"
I think you're wrong. We all saw that McGuire was having a mare. I must admit I hadn't picked up on the obvious weak link of having a prop out on the right as a second rower. Also, picking a winger as his inside centre just exposed Tom. These were tactical blunders by the coach that were exacerbated by McGuire's underperformance. However, Fox would have been in exactly the same situation - just turning around over and over to cover the failings of the men inside him. I wouldn't have had a go at Fox and I doubt that others who understand how rugby is played would have - I'd have been happy to see him in the team. This was England playing, not clubs. I even said I'f have preferred to see Cooke out there instead of McGuire. England comes first in this situation, then the city of Hull - imho of course.
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Cant understand Why he took him off then if he isnt blaming him ?
Should have been a straight swap, Eastmond for Smith !
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Cant understand Why he took him off then if he isnt blaming him ?
Should have been a straight swap, Eastmond for Smith !
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| I don't know what anyone else thought, but I reckon Australia are there for the taking by whoever wins between NZ and England. Both packs battererd the hell out of Oz and I don't think they will recover in time.
The clash between England and NZ's two sets of forwards next week will be fantastic - I'm really looking forward to it. I also think we will be more used to the quick ruck that the Kiwis did Australia with because of our hsitory of the quicker play the ball (admittedly not necessarily this season).
With better selection in the centres I'm hopeful we can win.
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| Quote ="downtheante"I don't know what anyone else thought, but I reckon Australia are there for the taking by whoever wins between NZ and England. Both packs battererd the hell out of Oz and I don't think they will recover in time.
The clash between England and NZ's two sets of forwards next week will be fantastic - I'm really looking forward to it. I also think we will be more used to the quick ruck that the Kiwis did Australia with because of our hsitory of the quicker play the ball (admittedly not necessarily this season).
With better selection in the centres I'm hopeful we can win.'"
I thought the Aussies took their foot off the gas in the second half. In the first half I dont think they really got out of third gear. I think they have Plenty more left in them !
Also dont think we will get near the Kiwis at weekend.
When either of these teams are on song its men against boys im afraid !
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| I thought it was a combination of poor defence (the whole team as a unit) and high quality from the Australians. England new the main threat would come down their right hand side and yet they looked surprised when it happened. Australia set up the plays very well, sucking in the defence before spreading the ball wide with quality passes. It was nice to see a back line running from deep, something that seems to be missing from the European game at the moment.
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| Quote ="MR BOJANGLES"I thought the Aussies took their foot off the gas in the second half. In the first half I dont think they really got out of third gear. I think they have Plenty more left in them !
Also dont think we will get near the Kiwis at weekend.
When either of these teams are on song its men against boys im afraid !'"
This attitude towards the Aussies really winds me up! They're not super human, and quite beatable. 2nd half they were knackered and didn't look like scoring once, and most of their tries in the first have were opportunist.
Like I said, we dominated for the 2nd half after Smith had made changes to the defensive set up. We'll go into the NZ game with that extra bit of experience having learn't from the mistakes on Saturday.
Don't forget that the Aussies had a tough game to start the series last week, as well as the majority of the team playing an origin series and mid season international vs the world champs. Who have we played? France and Wales, hardly good preparation to take on Australia!
I'm confident, I think we can beat NZ next week and give the Aussies a bloody good game in the final. I don't doubt that they could have raised their intensity at times, but we had them rattled and they didn;t like it.
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