It's what we do. We're either champions in waiting or wooden spoon contenders, rarely anything in between.

Indeed - but there comes a time when it's the good players that raise the standard of the team. In fact it's the only way the team can get better - if the players contribute to it.

In Westerman's case tonight it was a normal sort of game for him - good occasionally and mostly anonymous. Galea was worse but people should stop expecting Westerman to be better than he is. We've seen enough from him now to know that wherever he plays he's never going to be anything other than average over the course of a season. If he was better he'd be talked about as a possible for the England team at the end of the year. He wont be talked about in that way because he's nowhere near good enough - same as many other of our players.

Nice to hear a bit of common sense.

I've always thought he's been effective playing out wide on a usually poor right side, in the middle he's a waste.

Oh, we'll be in between. Again. Tonight isn't indicative of how the season as a whole will pan out, but it's hard to see us troubling the top teams when it comes to silverware.

Seymour - the new Thorman. Can't tackle. Can't organise. Can't pass. Can't catch. Can't kick. Gives away penalty after penalty. Just awful. Seriously, we shouldn't persist with him.

Westerman - always looking fit the shot, so misses tackle after tackle.

Galea - slow, invisible.

I could go on. Very average team. Our strength in depth is only due to the averageness of all the players.
Not a chance a team with one half back and not many quality forwards will challenge. Today showed us just how far behind we are.

We'll have to agree to differ then.

Could someone just post a list of SL 13s who consistently boss games please?

After watching the match i saw plenty of positives to suggest this was a stumbling block.. I think the first 40 we did to much tackling and that paid price in the second half..

IMO i think the game changer was the 40/20 kick which hit the line..

Pack wasn't upto it but we have tickle and watts to come back yet who offer alot more.. Galea, Well think his signing was a mistake, Again IMO..

Best player of the match for me is Green.. Thought the way he Pi**ed Peacock off was ace. Constantly sticking the shoulder in.

Sir Kev

It's not about him bossing games (for me, anyway). I just think he's a really average player. Though you could probably start that list with Sinfield and O'Loughlin.

Exactly.

Seemed as though he was determined to get Peacock,hope Green see's that Peacock is the benchmark for prop's,a good player to look up to.

Westerman's a bit soft imo. I think other forwards know this & target him as well. Flashy against lower sides when Hull are winning easily but goes missing when it gets tough. Talent's there, needs to man up a bit.

Westerman needs to learn to tackle properly first

Sinfield plays 6 and O'Loughlin doesn't 'boss' games at all.

He's been a 6 for the last 2 years, and he was the last of a dying breed before that. People need to realise that the old 13 role of dictating the play has gone and stop berating Westerman for not doing the very thing that nobody else does, either. No other back row forwards in SL are expected to control games by either their coaches or fans, it's a delusion exclusive to Hull fans purely because we paid a fee for him (which is irrelevant, btw). He works hard and looks dangerous when running out wide when we're on the front foot with a bit of speed in our play. In case anyone missed it, it was exactly this which got our only score on the board tonight. Of all the problems we had tonight, he's a fair way down the list.

That said, I would actually play him in the 2nd row, personally.

Ditto this.

well said carl

Completely correct. He created the only thing we did of any note tonight.

I don't think he is average, he just doesn't reach the unrealistic levels some demand of him because of the price tag. For me he's been one of our best forwards during the run-ins of the last 2 seasons, whilst playing 2nd row.

Sinfield plays 13 when Burrow switches to 7, and has bossed games from 13 throughout his career. O'Loughlin is far more influential than Westerman on the outcome of a game and the performance of his team. All of which is largely irrelevant because, as I said, I don't expect Westerman to boss games.

I'll say it again: I don't expect Westerman to boss games. I don't expect Westerman to boss games. I don't...

For the job he is expected to do, he's been average over the course of his time with us. He has some good games, some bad. But mostly average.

I don't think he is average, he just doesn't reach the unrealistic levels some demand of him because of the price tag. For me he's been one of our best forwards during the run-ins of the last 2 seasons, whilst playing 2nd row.'"

And why must it all be about you? Others [ihave[/i said he should be bossing games, and I'm not just talking about tonight and this thread.



And I'll say it again, and join in with others who have also said it: I disagree. This is not an opinion I share. I think you're wrong. My thoughts are different to yours. The things you've written, I do not concur with.