Jason smith..end of discussion for me.... arguably my greatest fc player of all time... simply genius ballplayer, and hard as nails...... took us from average to good singlehandedly imo

Agreed, whilst knocker is an obvious contender and with all due respect to those saying it's obvious, there's only one winner etc I think Whiteley just outperforms him by a smidge in pretty much every department.
In many respects Mich Crane was the most talented, just not the most professional, we saw some great stuff by Smithy but not quite enough for him to get the nod.
So for me Johnny Whiteley MBE gets my vote.

Other Hull players from the past that should get a mention are;
Steve Darmody, the Australian international signed at the end of the 1911/12 tour effectively sealing his fate of more rep honours. Sadly only two seasons with us but part of the 1914 cup winning team & WWI put paid to the rest of his career, was wounded & lost a foot whilst with the Transport Corps but later joined the RFC and flew with an artificial leg!

Also Harold Ellerington, 'Elmo' as he was known started out on the wing and played in every back position during his first 3 seasons before settling at Loose man. Became Hull captain and during his 11 seasons played 267 games with 51 tries and 2 goals. Whilst only a championship medal for the 35/36 season (though away with the GB squad he got a medal for his 31 appearances that season) & one losers medal from a Yorkshire cup defeat in which he was MoM for his gutsy display Harold was selected for the GB squad on numerous occasions but never got his test 'cap'. Played 11 tour games in total as well as 2 England and 1 Yorkshire appearance before the outbreak of WWII ended his career. Latterly became a director during the successful 1950s era.

So to [iSir[/i Johnny Whiteley 15 Test/World Cup appearances for Great Britain which is MORE than Vinty Karalious, if weren't for VK and Derek 'Rocky' Turner two outstanding loose/locks Whiteley would be the most capped GB player. Selected for the 1954 GB world cup squad but didn't play(Dave Nightingale played all four)
Selected and played in the 1958 tour squad that retained the Ashes in Australia scoring a try in the third test.
He was a member of the last G.B. squad to beat Australia on home soil in the 1959 test series scoring the try that beat the Aussies
He repeated the feat again scoring the vital winning try in the last few minutes in the 1960 ashes triumph.
Member of the 1962 G.B. team (regarded by many as the greatest ever touring team) which won the ashes in Australia.
417 appearances over 15 years, 156 tries & 2 goals, MBE though a knighthood would be far more appropriate for all he has done.

The word legend is bandied about far too easily these days, there was never a more appropriate moment to accurately describe someone, the man is black & white to the core, a gentleman and as great a rugby player as you would want in the 13 jersey a god amongst equals.

sorry knocker but thems the breaks.

I would have to nominate Jason Smith, one of the best players I have ever seen.

Although I probably saw Johnny Whiteley play I am too young (do not say that often these days) to really remember him and appreciate his talent.

Steve Norton was a brilliant player but I think this was demonstrated more by what he did as an individual rather than what he did for the team as a whole. I am not saying he was selfish or not a team player.

Mick Crane was a similar, extremely talented player.

However two things made Jason Smith stand out. He was one of the few players who could grab a game by the scruff of the neck and change the pattern of how the team was playing and the course of the game. Secondly whenever he got the ball, to me, it looked like the game had gone in to slow motion; he just seemed to have so much time to pick out the right pass and the right player to make the difference. In addition as someone else has said he was as hard as nails and that was another way he often had an impact on the match.

I'm a big admirer of what Jason Smith brought to Hull FC but he came second best to Stuart Fielden in a bit of biff at the KC once which doesn't say much for the hard as nails claim. Never saw Whiteley play but Knocker's my all time Hull FC hero so he get's my vote.

I would go for the 1958 Gt Britain team as the best touring team as it had the best pack supported by halves Dave Bolton and Alex Murphy.

Brian McTigue, Tommy Harris, Alan Prescott, John Whiteley, Dick Huddart and Vince Karalius. Best ever Gt Britain/England pack in my lifetime.

Possibly shaded in the backs by the 1962 team.

Think there is a mix up here. The 1959/60 ashes 3 match series was completed in England in Dec 1959. Johnny scored his try in the second test in the last few minutes giving Gt Britain a 2-0 lead and series win. Aus won the last game.

No ashes matches were played in 1960 when the third World Cup competition was held in England which England won by beating Australia in a series where no final was played and the team with the most points won. Both teams were undefeated until that match produced the winner.

I went to the game at Odsal and I cannot remember Johnny playing but can remember Billy Boston scoring a try.

I think that Charlie Nimb also was instrumental in getting the rule that at a penalty if you elected to go for goal you had to stick to that decision being implemented.

Seem to remember when the 4 tackle rule first came in, Cyril Sykes would kick the ball dead on the last tackle, and we'd get possession back from the (then) dropout.

I didn't see Whiteley play but by all accounts he was one of the very best players in the world game in his era, as Norton and Smith were in theirs. Really its hard to separate them on ability so the only meaningful measure I could use is club appearances making my 1 2 3 Whiteley Norton Smith.

After that Mick Crane - an excellent player in his own right and the absolute definition of a character and legend. Among others Divorty was a good player and a main driving force in the Brian Smith revival of the team. No mention of Westerman yet, I know he has his haters on this board, but he definitely deserved his England selection last year.

sorry this thread got a bit lost in the fall out from the magic weekend.

i'll sort out the 5 proposed nominees tomorrow

any more for any more?

How many nominees do we normally have for a single position, is 5 one too many?

Johnny Whiteley for me. His record for Hull and GB, speaks for himself.
I read terry Clawson's autobiography a while back, in it, he tells of his first game against Johnny. Terry was a young player just starting his professional career at Cas? Playing at the Boulevard, against an aging Johnny, Terry put a few big hits on him. At half time, Terry saw Johnny approaching him from the side and expected a nudge at least but Johnny walked up, put his arm around Terry's shoulder and started telling him how to better his game!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gentleman John, for me.
ps. We should start a campaign to get him a Knighthood, Allam might be able to remember who Johnny is then.

We have had an enormous blessing of loose men. The jury will be out for ever on this one.
Knocker for me, he had it all, Whiteley was incomparable but I was but a young gun then, Crane absolute class, Grimaldi modern day artist and Smith the perfect allrounder.
Tough call for you mate, best of luck.

Having started watching fc properly in 2003 Jason Smith is by far the best loose and best player I've seen play for fc! That return game against saints at the kc when he tore them apart, then sat on the bench for a while. Truly amazing what he could do without breaking sweat! A younger generation fc fan.

yeah its 5 for a single position - 6 for a dual

luckily i'm only doing the nominees - you lot are voting for the players (i wouldn't be so daft in trying to put together a team myself

)

Norton was the best I have seen (with Smith a close second).

But I guess Whiteley has to be named because of what hid did for the club, GB and how he is still regarded as the clubs biggest legend.

I don't see you can have a best team ever Hull side without him it, regardless of position. So Norton will probably end up being the best player not to be in it!

Difficult one this.

Norton was pure class, but I wonder if he could have cut it in the modern game. Norton was head and shoulders above at his time but I do wonder about the fitness levels the average player had back then. Also Norton, for the main, played in an attacking, free flowing teams. If he had a quiet game someone else would have taken charge.

Smith was, in my opinion, a more skillful player and could handle the pace of the modern game. As pointed out by another poster, he single handedly lead the team forward. Downside was his injury record

I think some fans are looking through rose coloured bins reagds Knocker He was good ,But on skill and being able to control a game Jason Smith was a class above
I have seen knocker play right shart at times and yet Smithy could turn a game single handed Next to him Craney was a one of and even Knocker admired his class
if if comes down to what the guy has done in his carreer Remember who was Sullys centre on his first game , then it has to be Johnny whitely Its a hard call for me We are lucky to have been blessed with supreme loose forwards
My shout has to be Smithy , stand off/scrum half/loose man In my top players i have seen pull on the black and white shirt, best of luck on this one

Been following this and although I won't be voting I am old enough to have watched both Norton and Smith. The 13 shirt has evolved a lot over the years. Norton was to me an off the cuff player who could change games with a touch of magic. Smith on the other hand was a leader of men and the team would follow him into battles you had no right to win.

got a few more comments on the thread so i let it run on for a bit, but here are the 5 nominees for the position of Loose Forward

Johnny Whiteley. Signed for Hull from amateur rugby in 1950 Whiteley went on to make 417 appearances for his only professional club, scoring 156 tries. He became captain in 1956 and kept the role until his retirement. The lynch pin of the great FC side of the late 50s and early 60s he won 2 championships and made 2 losing challenge cup final appearances, and was never dropped. He also featured in 2 ashes winning series for great britain both at home and down under. Went on to coach Hull and also GB to a series win over Australia in 1970.

Mick Crane. Crane was arguably Hull's most mercurial player able to create and score tries from nothing with a slick pass or outrageous dummy, and also possessed a decent kicking game to boot. He played for the club from 1970 until 1977 and returned in 1981 after spells at leeds and hull kr. he retired in 1987 though missed all of the 1985/6 season through 'premature retirement'. whilst often overlooked in favour of steve norton for the loose forward role in the biggest games he plyed his part in several cup wins of the early 80s. played over 350 games for Hull. Also possessed something of a unique attitude to training

Steve Norton. Signed from Castleford under the noses of leeds and bradford, norton went on to become the key player in the great early 80's FC team. One of the great ball playing 13's, norton won all major honours with hull apart from the premiership trophy. as well as a skillful player norton could be a hard man on the field and would take on an enforcer type roll when called upon. played in 3 challenge cup finals and also in the winning 1982 replay team. norton also represented GB on 12 occasions.

Tony Grimaldi. Though he had a relatively short career with hull, TG made a big impression on the post Gateshead merger team in 2000 and 2001 as club captain. He was one of the first of a newer breed of 13's, noted for work rate and high tackle counts, leading the team through inspiration. Took on the onfield task of blending the best of the Gateshead players with the young talent coming through at Hull. Played 60 games scoring 14 tries

Jason Smith. Signed to replace Grimaldi, Smith was already a superstar of the game in Australia where he was one of the players who resisted the advances of superleague, winning the world cup in 1995. Smith was probably the last great ball playing loose man the club have had, possessing left and right cut out passes, leadership skills and an excellent kicking game. He led the team by example, becoming captain in 2002 until his departure in 2004. Only injury prevented him going on to greater things in England. Played 80 games scoring 17 tries.

if you think the nominees are wrong and would like to propose an inclusion or exclusion please speak up on this thread. i will start the voting thread in a couple of days and also link to the other position voting threads which are still open and will remain so until the end of the regular season. I will ask the mods if they can make the voting link thread a sticky once the team nominations are complete. Coming up next will be the coach thread and also the subs (i'm going to have a think about how to do this one as these will most likely come from players who don't win the vote in the main position categories - suggestions welcome)

The great Hull side of the fifties started it's run in 1955. Between 1955 and 1961 Whiteley played in at least 1 final/year in this period for a total of 8 finals. These comprised 3 League championships, 2 Yorks cups,2 Challenge cups and 1 European Cup. Also in this period he played for GB/England winning 2 ashes series and the World cup. No other Hull player in its history can come anywhere near to this success in a similar time frame.

I cannot recall John coaching an England World cup win but I was in Australia to witness him coaching GB to their last ashes series win in 1970, having also seen him play in the last GB ashes win in England.

Sorry I thought he was coach for the 1972 world cup win. Will ammend

.... the coach was Jim Challinor.