League position tells you nothing either you will be saying next? Can't you answer the question?

Intresting to see horney is our top assists player with 7. I feel he has to come back in one of the halfback positions as rankin and miller aren't doing enough.

Tbf the try assist stat is not really an accurate 1 to use. You only get awarded a try assist for the final pass of the move, if a player throws a pass to make a break they get nothing.

Just wondered where 1865 is getting the info that Miller is in the top 3 performers from? He hasn't been awarded many Albert Goldthorpe medals either.

Yes we heard it all
Our great defence last year was all to do with Radford.? Gentles gone and taken "Radfords" defence with him?

We're great in attack? Well obviously gentles poor attack has gone now. In fact it's so good......... We have less competitions points than this time last year.

For the record this isn't an attack on Radford, the change in coach was Mr Pearson's call. A call that has taken us backwards.

I think [i'injured'[/i is more appropriate for McDonnel.

What a difference a year makes indeed! That was quite a depressing read. How could it all have gone so wrong when we looked to be making some real progress? Seems to be an age old problem with FC.



Agree with a lot of this to be honest. Our form certainly dipped once we got to the business end of the Challenge Cup. I think it was probably AP that targeted the CC as I recall him making comments in last years pre-season about it but PG probably agreed that it was an achievable goal. Sadly we showed that we weren't good enough to fight on both fronts but I believe we could have got there under PG. We were a good, solid, outfit under PG. Maybe not the most exciting but for the most part a difficult outfit to play against.

I bet those people who were asking to get rid of PG wish they could have him back now...

old saying "you don't know what you've got until its gone"

And could have started developing into something. I agree we were too led by the Mcrae/Howes axis, but once Bomber went that could have been changed

First season possibly so - second season not so IMHO. We won one more game than we lost last year in the league and embarrassed ourselves on the national stage twice. I know we'd take that league record this year right now - however that doesn't mean we were a solid side and difficult to play against last year. Although the league place finish was the same as 2012 we certainly went backwards in performance in 2013.

The team performances certainly began to tail off as the season progressed (effectively from the 31st May onwards, hence my original post). At this point one year ago the mood was positive as we appeared to be going in the right direction at the very least with the promise of more to come.

Looking back today, the first half of this year appears to be a continuation of last years' second half. The slow steady decline which commenced the week after the Leeds game has continued unchecked into 2014 and, on the surface, shows little sign of stopping anytime soon.

Whether the situation would have been any different under Gentle's stewardship we shall never know. We could easily find ourselves in this position whoever the coach was. Certainly, changing the coach has had negligible effect. The progress graph from May 2013 to May 2014 continues to show a steady decline in terms of form, results, performance and the general mood of we fans which now ranges from frustrated to despondent and on to outright despair (with the exception of one or two generally optimistic posters).

How and why we have arrived at this point appears to be the end result of a combination of some very complex factors. I think most of us agree, however, that the root cause of all our problems is this undefinable malaise which seems to have enveloped the club for more years than any of us can remember. What this "malaise" actually is and how we go about eradicating its suffocating effects is the holy grail of everyone connected to Hull Fc, be they owner, coach, player or supporter.

One year ago I was genuinely excited at the prospect of good days to come. We seemed to be on the brink of possibly big things in 2014/15/16 and hopefully beyond. Instead, just 365 days later, that mood has been completely washed away to be replaced by an overwhelming feeling of inertia. From my own personal viewpoint this feels like 2009 all over again. Once more we appear to be going round and round in a never ending circle, seemingly condemmed to make the same mistakes over and over again

A few 'fun' facts for the season comparisons:

This season to last season:

- This season we are averaging both less points and less tries scored per game than both of Gentle's seasons. So in hindsight, the 'improved attack' of the early games seems very much like we were just making hay against the crap/cold sides, and we've been worse since.

- Our defence is actually very consistent with last year in terms of points scored, however we are missing more tackles.

This season's stats may yet prove to be slightly skewed in our favour at this stage too, given that we've played more than half of the season so far at home, are yet to score a single league point away, and our remaining home games are 4 of the top 5 and a derby (of which we've lost 2 already).

Gentle's 2nd season vs. 1st season:

- Our defence improved by an average of a little over 2 points per game. Our points against deteriorated by slightly over 1.5 points per game. So overall we improved our points margin over the previous season whilst maintaining 6th.

- We missed marginally more tackles in season 2, but made significantly more (22.5% more), so our tackle completion had actually improved.

- In season 2 we made more metres overall, per game, and per carry.

- In season 2 our discipline also improved, conceding 55 less penalties (a 30% decrease).

So in summary, I don't think we were going backwards, and the stats don't suggest that either. We just perhaps didn't advance as much as we could/should have, and had 2 high profile embarrassments.

The detailed stats might not suggest it - but the number of games won (and hence league points won) would certainly suggest it. That's a better measure for me than detailed stats.

Only if you look at the number of league wins in isolation, which is far too narrow a view IMO. We had 2 less wins in the league, but even discounting the Crusaders game we had 3 more wins against SL opposition in the cup. Overall, we therefore had 1 more win over the previous season, and a not too dissimilar win percentage. It's also not hard to think of a possible reason why we might have lost more games in a season when we played 4 more games and thus had less weeks off than the previous year (and also less than anyone else other than Wigan).

I'd say that our performance stats suggest we had continued to improve, but the league results tell us maybe not as much as some other teams.

Incidentally, Wigan won 4 less league games in 2013 than 2012, but claimed both major trophies compared to one league leaders' shield. I wouldn't say they went backwards.

And had we won even one trophy I would agree with you wholeheartedly that we had made major progress. But we didn't. In fact we didn't get close.

Anyway - in case you missed it the claim I was questioning was that we were "a solid side that was difficult to beat" under Gentle. Despite all the stats you quoted I doubt there are many reasonable judges that would think that P27, W13,D2,L12 in the league would suggest in any way that we were "solid and difficult to beat". Now Wigan on the other hand with W17,D1,L9 would be a lot closer to that without of course being the best in the league. But they can point to the trophies they won as progress as you rightly point out. We can't - unfortunately.

I didn't actually say that for you to agree with. I just said I didn't think we went backwards. I even suggested that we didn't advance enough.



I never actually said anything about how difficult we were to beat.

However, I do disagree with you saying (both on here and similar in other threads) that

IMO we didn't, and I don't think the stats back it up either. A couple of results might have gone astray purely in the league, but I do think we were still progressing albeit not as much as I would have liked. We certainly weren't regressing, which so far this year I'd say we now are. Doc Brown nailed it when he said we just weren't good enough to compete in both competitions for the full season.

Fair enough - although I think "a couple of league games going astray" is a very generous call on last year's league season.

We were incredibly lucky to win away at Catalans in the cup which was an absolute shocker of a performance that deserved nothing but incredibly we met a side which performed marginally worse in a terrible game. Lose that one game and it would have painted a totally different picture on the season although it would have prevented us going down to Wembley and posting another disgraceful shocker whilst being nilled and saved us all a packet.

Anyway to resurrect the original talking point - do you think we were a solid side that was difficult to beat in 2013 ?

Obviously I only meant in comparison to the previous season in that. For real progression, I would have been looking for more wins than the previous season, and my long-term aspirations for us would be to be a team capable of pushing for/achieving 20 wins a season.



The Catalan game I find difficult to comment on, as I have never really seen a game like it. 2 teams who had been having relatively decent seasons up to that point produced 2 absolutely abysmal displays with ball in hand (particularly uncharacteristic for Catalan). That was the game that actually had me starting to consider that there might be more truth in the Rhino ball complaints than I'd previously believed.

In short, no. To answer more fully, I think we were [itough[/i, or [ichallenging[/i to beat, in that we made teams work hard for it, but clearly we weren't particularly hard to beat because the simple fact is that plenty of teams managed it. However, simple facts also show that only 5 teams were any harder to beat than us. We were certainly harder to beat then than we are now. We're bordering on easy-beats now.

(And actually, the original point was about how we compare now to a year ago, and whether or not we would beat London.)

Confident we'll win, that's why I'm making the trip.

You beat a Leeds team massively weakened and then suffering extreme adversity with injuries during the game.

I actually thought Leeds deserved enormous credit for competing to the end in the face of massive odds.

Yet Hull fans saw it as the dawn of world domination. Barmy or what?

Listen, everybody I mean EVERYBODY has a good win sometime during the season yet only Hull FC think they have suddenly become a fearsome power.

I've said it before and you have proved my point for me.. whenever something better than rubbish happens to you there you are wetting yourselves like you are on the cusp of being a big power. It's ridiculous.

On the other hand you have a bad run and suddenly you are going to lose to London. Get a grip.

Bore off...go on to your own board & talk about your hyped up trophy winners.....haha

similar to the reaction of the dobbins fans after they scraped past 12 man Hull FC at the etihad

Clueless as always



Hardaker, Vickery, Watkins, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Sinfield, Leuluai, Burrow, Bailey, JJB, Delaney, Clarkson
Subs McShane, Kirke, Singleton, Sutcliffe

Hardly "massively weakened". Pretty much the same team that lost narrowly to Wigan the week before.

He never saw that match because they don't have Sky in his care home.

Comprehensive ownage.