The problem is, I believe, the fact that Leeds, and the other top four sides, have been winning just about everything for the last 10 years.
There is a significant amount of extra monies associated with this success, which is in addition to the Sky income.
It makes investment much easier when this extra money is coming in, and can't be spent on players' wages because of the cap.

Good points, ETP is meant to be aiding this but it need some good partnerships to make it work.

Attract them in schools but feed them to the amateur clubs to help populate the game.

Then back it up with coach education to help up-skill coaches and therefore players too

One of the biggest problems I see with a merged academy is how the team set up and the playing ethos they adopt. Wigan are held up as the shining light of academy rugby and they set this up that the same plays and techniques are used right throughout the youth set ups and into the first team. This enables a player to more or less shoe horn into the first team when an opportunity arises. It may be a step up but in essence its the same play book.

Who will dictate this to the academy, The Hull teams play very different brands of rugby (whether this is intentional or not is up for debate), but Hull play a power based defensive structure, Rovers a more free flowing mobile type of game. What will the academy play?

What if a player makes the step up for a game and then comes back down for a spell, is he the contracted to the club he played for in that game, is the academy there to keep a player fit whilst he's on the fringes?

To be fair our Under 19's play a very good brand of rugby, certainly better than the first team (Although that has been better since we have both our half's fit and playing)

here's an interesting one just a couple of days after Coach Wane stated referring to our new merged plans 'We won't be merging with Anyone" it appears there is a break away forming with some Clubs who appear to be about to introduce their own A team type competition next season which is designed to give some over 19's a game but which will also have to include no doubt some of their under 19's. Do you think Hull and Rovers will be one of the 'other super league clubs' mentioned. On a personal note I don't think they will! www.newsnow.co.uk/A/782931583?-4338:2393:3

here's an interesting one just a couple of days after Coach Wane stated referring to our new merged plans 'We won't be merging with Anyone" it appears there is a break away forming with some Clubs who appear to be about to introduce their own A team type competition next season which is designed to give some over 19's a game but which will also have to include no doubt some of their under 19's. Do you think Hull and Rovers will be one of the 'other super league clubs' mentioned. On a personal note I don't think they will! www.newsnow.co.uk/A/782931583?-4338:2393:3

Of course it would be preferable if they were exclusively ours. It would also be preferable if they were all going on to higher honours constantly and transforming our first team in a way they do at the other big clubs. But that's isn't happening, and in the eyes of those that matter, doesn't look like it will do they need to be protective.


It does make me happy that we have a lot more youngsters coming through. But, like many, I want more for them. Out of those products, how many do you see have potential to become England internationals? The best in their field?

And yes, I would class going on to represent your country as a pretty good indicator at the quality of our academy. The quantity doesn't tell us the entire story.


I'm not sure what your point is? I'm not saying they need to represent their country this second, just have the potential to. Look at the list of players Saints have produced for England and it tells you why they've been so good for so long. Same as Leeds and Wigan.

That list is embarrassing though, isn't it? In 15 years, we've produced 5 internationals. And of those 5: we've failed to keep hold of two of them; two have only played two games each for their country; and the total cap haulage is 38 (12 + 2 + 7 + 15 + 2). 38 caps in 15 years.

I really hope you don't think of that as some kind of success? It is utterly garbage for a club the size of ours to have only produced this many caps in this long. Gareth Ellis alone has nearly this many.

Compare our numbers with any other SL clubs and it is mediocre. We're in a similar bracket to Huddersfield, behind Warrington, Wakefield; and daylight behind Castleford, Bradford, Leeds, Wigan and Saints. We're ahead of the likes of Salford, Rovers and Widnes (clubs that have spent time in the lower leagues for 2+ seasons in that time) and London (an expansion area club).

We will never be a big club if we can't produce (and then keep) our own elite products.

How many England Academy or U16's players are at the Hull club at the moment?

Is the problem in the development of the youngsters rather than the quantity and quality, also do we need Rovers to push this forward or do we need to take ALL the spoils for ourselves?

Will Wigan merge with Saints or Warrington, will Leeds allow the next Sir Kev to sign for Bradford in a draft system?

It's quite simple, donate 100K a year to the club and I am sure they can still run an academy team on their own to the standard on Leeds and Wigan.

Crap memory but doesn't some of the money I pay for my pass get allocated to the youth setup now? I'm sure there was an additional amount on my receipt?

IIRC it was an optional £10 you could pay?

Quote ="The Dentist Wilf"here's an interesting one just a couple of days after Coach Wane stated referring to our new merged plans 'We won't be merging with Anyone" it appears there is a break away forming with some Clubs who appear to be about to introduce their own A team type competition next season which is designed to give some over 19's a game but which will also have to include no doubt some of their under 19's. Do you think Hull and Rovers will be one of the 'other super league clubs' mentioned. On a personal note I don't think they will! www.newsnow.co.uk/A/782931583?-4338:2393:3'" I'm sure Saints & Leeds will be part of it so potentially starts creating a bigger gap with the rest of SL as all their fringe players and returning from injury will get meaningful game time before a 1st team return / call up

Quote ="The Dentist Wilf"here's an interesting one just a couple of days after Coach Wane stated referring to our new merged plans 'We won't be merging with Anyone" it appears there is a break away forming with some Clubs who appear to be about to introduce their own A team type competition next season which is designed to give some over 19's a game but which will also have to include no doubt some of their under 19's. Do you think Hull and Rovers will be one of the 'other super league clubs' mentioned. On a personal note I don't think they will! www.newsnow.co.uk/A/782931583?-4338:2393:3'" I'm sure Saints & Leeds will be part of it so potentially starts creating a bigger gap with the rest of SL as all their fringe players and returning from injury will get meaningful game time before a 1st team return / call up

The academy doesn't stop at 16. This is the frustrating thing. We have quality at that age and then there's a point where they stop developing at the same rate as other areas of the country. Why?


The development ultimately is the quality.

In an ideal world, we'd have all the spoils ourselves, but in the real world that won't happen, so whilst we're sharing we're reducing the intensity of the squad.


Why would they be to? It's not a logical argument. They produce stacks of young professionals and a large chunk of the England team.

But has our current system been given enough time to bear fruits before writing it off as a bad job? I don't think it has.

By current system, I don't mean what we had in place under Hetherington & Co from 2000 to the time when Pearson realised the youth setup was e. The current system is the time the past 3/4 years since Pearson has been putting in a decent level of investment.

That system is seeing/will see the likes of Lancaster, Turgut, Hadley, Logan, BTW, Dean, HTW, Fash & Abdull emerge.

So Wellsy are we saying that the raw material (young kids) is as good as other clubs and in the right numbers but it is the development (coaching, sports science, nutritionists, facilities) where we are falling down?

Doom&Gloom I think your right on the timings, Wigan and Leeds both went through lean periods as the youth (Club Hull) system kicked in. How many years have Hull fans been told to wait, next year is our year? We need the owner to be patient and give it a couple more years.

I watched the U16's derby this year and a Hull FC side with mainly U15's convincingly beat a Rovers side of mainly U16's so the drivers for Rovers are easy to see but for FC, why?

Exactly. We must be skint if Pearson has put all of his initial rhetoric to one side to save money like this.

I think we are, or least he is cutting costs as he is fed up with pumping money into the club.

This is the point where our youth and other top clubs path veer off on different paths.

Other clubs youth,are then placed onto developing their power and speed using Sports Science. ie they are developed into athletes.

I've heard two different reports, that we dont have. or simply we have it, but dont use it.

One rumour, is Steve McNamara was approached to take over from Gentle,but he insisted on appointing his own staff,with the implementation of a Sports Science Dept, Pearson rejected his suggestions,and chose Lee Radford.

Or a second rumour... we have a Sports Science Dept at Brandesburton, but Lee Radford doesnt trust it.

Either way, we dont use it, this is the main reason, our youngsters fail to play regular 1st grade, as they dont possess the physical attributes which is required for sustainability.

Had AP not paid off existing contracts of certain players,
and used that money to invest on coaches across the club.
we wouldnt be in this scenario, where we are now.

Question is: Are we a lot better today,without the players whose contracts were terminated?

Yes I reckon we probably are.
Not that either you or me know whether that's the reason for cost cutting - more likely the fall in gates.

Maybe I should have expanded on my question...

Are we a lot better today,without the players whose contracts were terminated..- at the expense ,of the future of our youth??

Yes I think we are, had we not been able to get rid of the likes of Miller, Arundel, Mcdonnell and Pitts we might not been able to sign Sneyd, Mini and Pryce, as disappointing as we have been this year, with these players would wouldn't be on the verge of the top 8.

No we might have been Top 6 which was where we ended 2013 with these players playing for us.

You think we would if we had Miller, Mcdonell, Arundel and Pitts we would finish top 6?

All seem to be doing well with their careers.

Surely you aren't that clueless?

Check the stats we finished 6th in 2013 with Miller, Mcdonell, Arundel and Pitts