FFS, Tomkins is perhaps in the top three of rugby league fullbacks. Of ourse Ellis is gonna kick down his throat, thats what great fullbacks do, move around and chase the area the ball is going into and this Tomkins is outstanding. Cracking side Wigan. End of.

Got to Agree with you there, Tompkins positional play when defending kicks was superb, don't knock the kicker

Is he? In SL yes but not in the world.

Tomkins was superb again today. On another day some of Ellis'/Nicko's kicks would have found ground, and maybe even gone for 40/20s, but Tomkins read them so well and sprinted to catch them on the full.

Wigan's defence got right in their faces and gave them little time to kick the way they wanted to.

His ability to catch the ball running back towards his own line means the halves need that extra thinking time that a good pack going forwards provides. You can't rely in him to make an error even knocking it backwards. The guy is like stretch armstrong, only problem is, he knows it.

Today's kicking was made to look ordinary by the quality of Tomkins. Often he sprinted 20-30 yards sideways to take a kick on the full.

Personally I think Ellis will make it in SL. He is prepared to take the line on which is something all good halves should have in their locker. Of the games Nickas has been involved in so far, there hasn't been much sparkle, IMO.

Tomkins was superb , Mopped up every thing we gave him. I 'd love Ellis to attack the line a bit more instead of opting for the pass all the time but like a few have mentioned , He'll come good eventually. Nicholas reminds me a bit like Anthony Thackeray .

Agreed.

As for the halfbacks, it was difficult circumstances for them up against a quality side behind a struggling pack, but they were still disappointing IMO. That was easily Ellis' worst performance with the boot for us, and his passing wasn't much to write home about either, yet he was actually the better of the 2. I thought Nicklas was massively out of his depth and made several wrong decisions with sloppy execution to boot. Hopefully he will learn a lot from the experience.

Don't think Ellis will make the grade,needs a vast improvement in many area's of his game,IMO.

Out of the two Ellis looks the more promising. He has a fantastic kicking game (usually),decent defence, isn't afraid to take the line on and can create things with ball in hand. One thing I don't think he is lacking is confidence, I actually think he believes in what he does, although it doesn't always come off and his head never drops afterwards.

Niklas though I just don't see it with him.

The thing I like about Ellis is that he doesn't let failure put him off. A ball player in League has to have the confidence to keep wanting the ball and trying to execute without worrying when it goes wrong. Players who don't touch the ball don't make mistakes. Ellis looks to have that Cooke quality where he can make a complete cock up and immediately start telling everyone elsewhat to do. That's what he has to do do , have confidence in his ability and persevere. It would be nice to see him stay there for the rest of the season. He's either going to prove himself or maybe prove he's not up to it but at least we'd know. No point in keeping him in the 20's blocking the development of someone else. Lets just give him a chance and enjoy the good bits.

Sorry but i dont agree, defence i think he is slow (fitness)?, ball in hand taking on the line i havnt seen anything yet, ""fantastic kicking game" better than we are used to but not fantastic. No were near Horney yet as a player hopefully in the future, maybe a couple of seasons away

Not sure either will make it, Ellis has the better chance as he kicks well.

I agree after watching yesterday. Nicklas would benefit from a loan spell where he is playing regularly. Not really been impressed with Ellis. They were playing behind a beaten pack but there seems to be a big gap between them and horne and seymour. Ellis might come good but I still think he needs to lose a bit of weight, Saints dont normally let players go who have a good chance of making it.

people who call hell out of Horne and say we should play Ellis or Nicklas instead should probably be a little quiet for a while now. Now he's missing it stands out! Ellis is well behind,although normally a good kicker he needs to polish all his skills a lot. That said does have the tools to start with! Nicklas is something else though. Nicklas is just about turning 21 n all iv'e seen is running right to left left to right dropping men off,few times ran yesterday made errors,kicks poor especially the 1 in 1st half early in tackle count of a repeat set! and 1 on 1 in defence he looks like always in trouble. Really dont think he has it,like i say think Ellis has but needs work. But heard Basil wants him at cas for next yr.

I'd give then Ellis plus cash for Chase.

Horne is obviously better than Ellis and Niklas, but Horne still isn't good enough for us if we want to be challenging the top 2 like Gentle said he plans to do.

I would look towards the NRL and see if there is anyone available, you never know we may find the next Scott Dereau. Couldn't break through at newcastle, but is ripping SL apart. If not make an attempt to sign Chase. Although I don't know if he could stick to a gameplan and not his usual 'off the cuff' style that Cas allow him to do all game.

Spot on...

However both Ellis & Nicklas are both young and have plenty of time to develop their skills whereas Rich is coming towards the end of his career at this level.

well according to Brother and a saints poster Ellis has been told he is surplus to requirements and will be heading to Cas for next season to replace Danny Orr

Interesting times ahead...

Mind you according to this board most of the bleedin team are leaving

Yeah Ellis to Cas. I reckon Gentle sees the same as the rest of us he has got no ball handling skills. We have to be ruthless if we want to get to the top

Currently Martin, Ogre, Ellis, Moa and Manu. Plus possibly Turner and Briscoe.

Not forgetting McKinnon!

Eight is a lot especially the fact that the majority are key players..

Some tough recruitment demands.

I think that moment highlighted the difference in experience/quality between Ellis and Nicklas at this moment in time. Ellis had put in a perfectly weighted kick on the last with nothing else on to get the repeat set, Nicklas had options outside him with 3 tackles left and put in a kick that never looked like staying in play. That's at least partly the advantage Ellis has had with his time in the championship.