Indeed, which is why I say "wait and see", everyone deserves a second chance, hope he grasps it...

I think it’s a smart deal for you. He does not have the benefit of a long term contract so it’s up to him to perform. If he is successful you can reward him with a decent contract. If he fails after this who will want him, certainly no decent super league clubs will be interested. When he puts his mind to it he is a decent player, personally I think he will go well.

I think his wife is expecting another baby, so perhaps this was a factor in wanting to leave Toronto? I do think it's a low risk signing, a trial with an option in our favour at low cost for a coach he want to work with. As stated already I don't think he's best suited as a middle player for us but replacing a wider player could add something to the squad where we are likely to lose two if not 3 senior back rowers this year.

Why would people be concerned we sold him to Warrington?
If he had been a problem at the club i dont think Radford or Pearson would welcome him back.
We dont know why Warrington sold him or why Toronto released him but in both cases there is nothing that says Westerman has had any sort of disciplinary problem at the clubs.
Good piece of business for me.Where can you find a forward of Westermans quality and experience without paying a fee and at a reduced wage according to the reports

Can he play Stand Off

When he left us for wire it coincided with Tony Smith signing a load of other e like Kevin Brown and they went downhill fast but i remember wire fans saying he was one of their better players.

I still dont get why weve signed Watts best mate but were potentially gonna lose Washy, Mini and Manu so getting Westerman on board now even to replace Washy takes pressure off as we will now only have two new back rowers to find. Seems strange at first but in an ever increasingly difficult market for getting new quality players in it actually seems good business

The quotes from our CEO were quite telling when we sold him. He referenced the need to enhance the culture of the playing group. He was a disruptive influence in the group and spent far too long on the beer by all accounts. It seems he hasn’t changed since his move to Toronto - not helped by some of the other characters they had there no doubt.

Not a risk free signing for you even till the end of the season because of this.

Our drop is really tight and one of the main reasons Watts was sold, if he steps out of line, he won't be at Hull anymore. Hopefully him and Watts see this as a last chance.

The Toronto set up seems a bit of a shambles, no real base, they sign and release players on a monthly basis, I think a lot of it stems from Rowley, who is a strange character,

Our squad is now stronger and we have potentially a very good SL player on our books.

That was the year after, in his first season, they won the league and made the GF and CC final. Think he played well in his time at Warrington, certainly in his first year. I think his ego should have taken a knock having to take a paycut, if he knuckles down he will be a very good signing.

Westerman was better than Ellis in 2016 and should have been in the dream team at No.13, IF we can get him at that level and use him correctly then he will be a very good asset.
We await to see what happens but I don't see us changing how we play to utilise Westerman's strengths
All things considered, mid season it was pretty much the best we could do.

So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?

So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?

Quote ="Dave K."So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?'" don't feed the troll, Bumpy is just pathetic.

Quote ="Dave K."So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?'" don't feed the troll, Bumpy is just pathetic.

Quote ="Dave K."So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?'" A popularity contest proves nothing and pro sports people are the worst for it. 2016 Westerman was superb, Ellis had a good season for the games he played which was 37% fewer than Westerman (9 numerically) but wasn't as good IMHO. Lineham isn't better than Ellis as you're comparing apples and oranges, Fonua is a better attacker than Lineham, Lineham far superior defensively as I said. Dream team wingers aren't picked on their defensive/overall capabilities and Fonua was fully deserving of his spot in 2016. HTH

Quote ="Dave K."So you know more about the game than he professionals that play it, as around 1/4 of them voted Ellis as the MOS? www.rugby-league.com/article/386 ... n-of-steel Or more than the journalists who voted Ellis in the dream team over Westerman? So that's Lineham and Westerman better than Ellis and Fonua. Kevin Brown better than Kelly?'" A popularity contest proves nothing and pro sports people are the worst for it. 2016 Westerman was superb, Ellis had a good season for the games he played which was 37% fewer than Westerman (9 numerically) but wasn't as good IMHO. Lineham isn't better than Ellis as you're comparing apples and oranges, Fonua is a better attacker than Lineham, Lineham far superior defensively as I said. Dream team wingers aren't picked on their defensive/overall capabilities and Fonua was fully deserving of his spot in 2016. HTH

Lee Radford has strong words about it, and Garry Schofield has his say in League Express later. Can hardly wait.

Rovers forum, next one down

So you are saying the MOS votes are based on a popularity contest?

Last year the top 3 was Hardraker, Kelly and Gale, id doubt very much that the first two players were that popular the were voted by players, they were voted advance they were the top 3 players, same as 2016 as all other years, Id be suprised if Westerman got one vote.

How many times did you watch Westerman in 2016, considering you don't watch many Hull games, I'd be suprised if it was more than 50%,

If you can't work out that I'm comparing Lineham to Fonua you are dumber than I thought.

But as I've said you know more that professional players, coaching and journalists.

What is your rugby playing and coaching with background, I presume you are still involved in the game Tony?

Also if you went to games in 2015 you will have seen some really poor performances defensively from Lineham, lots of posts on here at the time.

Lineham makes less mistakes, Fonua is superior in every other department

I always liked Lineham but he, like Westerman, never really showed the intensity of a Taylor or Houghton, or a Fonua, which fans really warm to.

Good signing for me

My knee jerk reaction was not positive but as others have said, if he plays as a wide runner like in his best season for us then he could go very well

I thought he overplayed sometimes at Warrington so I hope he doesn’t do the same at Hull. Welcome back Joe!

Personally I like reading Bumpys posts. He's forthright, says things without sugar coating and he's not afraid to just say it how he sees it.

Its just an opinion, of ONE man, and I can take it or leave it as I can with everyones. But I do like reading them.

I can't always do with all the Table Tennis and sometimes vitriol that usually follows a Bumby opening post or any of his posts for that matter, and both sides are to blame... someone starts it and no-one wants to back down and off we go... 3 pages later....
But it is amusing sometimes and then it just gets tedious and then boring.

His opening posts often make me look at the game from a different perspective, I rarely agree but I do agree sometimes. If I dont agree I'm not going to change Bumpys opinions anyway and I wouldn't want to. They are somtimes curve ball versus mainstream but so what. Let his voice be heard.
People are individuals and their different opinions make the world go round and a brighter more interesting place.

On this forum too its the same. If everyone just agreed with everyone else and largely followed the pack then what really is the point ?. Especially if it makes some people daunted to say what they think because they are wary of a backlash, whether real or not.

I welcome all comments, it makes this forum, but I'm not sure the barbs that are flying around on some occasions really are in the best interests of upping poster numbers. Rugby League and Hull FC has a rich tapestry of opinions, I just think we should welcome them all. We all see things in different ways.

Knockers "Radders out' move failed, I'm happy to say. It was a divisive move, and some people have long memories, but he genuinely felt that so fair play to him, and in the end end common sense prevailed in my humble opinion. I was very pleased that both he and it failed.

More recently though, he's had good things to say about Radders so he's not dyed in the wool.
And for or me that petition thing has gone with the fairies. Its History.
But I like people like Bumby and Seb who just sometimes say it, sometimes they may regret it, but thats their nature, they who are honest to their own opinions whether popular or not.
Long may it continue.

Good post, couldn't agree more

Westerman was very much praised by wire fans for his performance in 2016. I think were Ellis was different was his impact on the team. Ellis played and Hull performed. A real leaders role.

I disagree with your view of Lineham. He was not definitely not superior in defence. He was referred to as having an oil tankers turning circle when defending. Linehams main attributes were he could read the game well, was an opportunist and he was a decent finisher.

IMO