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| Quote ="Graham Richards"No as I stated I strongly believe it. This is based on watching Hull FC's play over the past few weeks. As I stated Pryce and Min's body language at times before the recent run of form suggested to me that they were not happy with the way we were playing. Then we get a report that stated that LR had said he was releasing the shackles (why the hell they were in shackles in the first place is another debate). I believe this would have been as a result of consultation with senior members of the squad.
Its a belief I have based on watching the game for almost 40 years. No insider knowledge. I may be wrong, but I have no confidence in Lee Radford being able to devise attacking plays, other than the durge that we were served up prior to this current run.
All opinions and I'm happy for others to prove my theory wrong.'"
I agree about radford and am somewhat puzzled (although very happy with) by our seeming seismic shift in attacking ability. I was just wondering if you knew something had happened. I'm not convinced it's down to pryce taking on the role of attacking coach though
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"I agree about radford and am somewhat puzzled (although very happy with) by our seeming seismic shift in attacking ability. I was just wondering if you knew something had happened. I'm not convinced it's down to pryce taking on the role of attacking coach though'"
I'm not suggesting he has taken on a coaching role, more he has imputted some of his considerable experience along with Mini and Ellis. Those three are winners and are not happy simply to take a pay cheque at the end of the month. They are here to win and what ever systems we had in place prior to Easter was not going to get us any where near silverware. I suggest words have been spoken behind closed doors and we are starting to see the results in our performances. It is after all a team effort.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"It was. No way on earth can a half organise every player in the team on every attacking play. Why do teams bother training other than defence and fitness?'"
Are you trying to tell me we need a coach to tell players where to stand? Deary me, every team sets up the same, in fact trying to put them in a rigid structure was the reason our attack was turd first half of the season.
The way you're making it out is far too rigid, as though every play is pre-determined.
Organisation on the field is the HB's job.
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| Quote ="Jake the Peg"He has previous for posting nonsense then arguing the toss. The only bonus is he then disappears for a few days'"
More nonsense.
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| Quote ="*1865*"Are you trying to tell me we need a coach to tell players where to stand? Deary me, every team sets up the same, in fact trying to put them in a rigid structure was the reason our attack was turd first half of the season.
The way you're making it out is far too rigid, as though every play is pre-determined.
Organisation on the field is the HB's job.'"
And a coach's job is to help ensure that the HB knows what's required of him 'on the field', re-enforce known plays/positioning, discuss options with the coach/s & what areas he/the team need to be pinpointing for any given opposition or individual player.
Some players whom have superb decision making abilities and can play what they see still need a plan, you still need coaches to guide even the most brilliant & gifted. Human beings are fallible, on any given day you might not be in the right place mentally if your preparation isn't right or something disturbs your way of thinking, this has happened to EVERY great athlete.
Having that team around you to get you onto the right track when things like that happen is massively important as is ensuring the plan that goes onto the pitch is met to achieve a goal, that doesn't mean you can't move away from that for given scenarios but if you don't fulfil the basics you end up not being able to do those off the cuff deviations so easily if at all.
JW might not improve us, we just don't know, but if he has a positive influence within the team as a whole whilst adding in his own player and coaching experience I think it's a risk worth taking to give him a go and see what happens, don't you?
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| Quote ="knockersbumpMKII"And a coach's job is to help ensure that the HB knows what's required of him 'on the field', re-enforce known plays/positioning, discuss options with the coach/s & what areas he/the team need to be pinpointing for any given opposition or individual player.
Some players whom have superb decision making abilities and can play what they see still need a plan, you still need coaches to guide even the most brilliant & gifted. Human beings are fallible, on any given day you might not be in the right place mentally if your preparation isn't right or something disturbs your way of thinking, this has happened to EVERY great athlete.
Having that team around you to get you onto the right track when things like that happen is massively important as is ensuring the plan that goes onto the pitch is met to achieve a goal, that doesn't mean you can't move away from that for given scenarios but if you don't fulfil the basics you end up not being able to do those off the cuff deviations so easily if at all.
JW might not improve us, we just don't know, but if he has a positive influence within the team as a whole whilst adding in his own player and coaching experience I think it's a risk worth taking to give him a go and see what happens, don't you?'" My argument was never that they didn't need coaching (although the less intelligent among us thought it was), what you've stated there I'm sure our coach already does. I want my HB controlling and organising out there, not pre determined set moves dictated by a coach. The idea was put forward was that he'd help with end of sets, kicking, catch & pass etc. But Pryce has been at the very pinnacle of our sport, he knows what's needed. Isn't it what we signed him for?
Things have turned a corner, why change things now?
I reckon if I went back through older posts, the same people who want Webster would have wanted Goulding, Cookie etc. I just don't see the point in employing people for the sake of it, unless you're 100% sure they'll make a difference, I'm not sure he will.
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| Employing him for the sake of it implies we are doing him a favour, how can you know what he offers if you didn't interview him, speak to him to find out what he has to offer?
Whilst individually we might disagree with what the owner, the coach or indeed players do and we evaluate their performances from a fans perspective it's virtually impossible to truly grasp what an individual has to offer until you speak to them in depth, find out what they are about, what they think they can offer and how they fit in with the existing team.
Your evaluation of what he's done here, at Wakey etc is far too simplistic and your way of thinking just narrows down opportunities by its very nature, that the head coach is looking at different avenues to improve the end result and as an aside possibly taking some pressure/responsibility off his shoulders has to be a good thing.
I'm all for voicing a strong opinion, you know that, I'll back myself despite what people have to say but sometimes we have to wait to see what happens and then judge/re-assess things even if our intial thoughts are 'what a load of old twaddle'.
You might be completely right but I think it would be hard to prove if things go wrong given the previous 18 months or so and Radford's track record.
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| Quote ="*1865*"More nonsense.'"
I know, as I said you have previous
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| Quote ="*1865*"Organisation on the field is the HB's job.'"
That may well be true nobody is questioning that. However its not the HB's job as a player to trawl through video and analyse the oppostion and work out tactics and game plans to help gain advantages and spot weaknesses. That is I believe where JW will be utilised and will help coach the players to assist and improve the attacking plays we have struggled with for years.
Why do you want to shove that responsibility on to a player? Surely the best thing to do is to take these responsibilites off players and work within a known series of structures/game plans which the team as a whole have worked on and are used to. Once these things are in place then the HB's role is to dictate the plays as the games unfold.
Bringing in JW is no sleight on Leon Pryce or Mark Sneyd far from it he is simply someone who can hopefully carry on the improvement in our attacking plays and help to achieve consistency.
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| Why would anyone want to give Pryce any extra responsibility, he has been outstanding as a player this year, so lets him concentrate on that?
This clearly isn't a knee jerk reaction or we would have appointed a coach earlier in the season, when we were struggling, the club clearly think Webster will be an asset so are trying to bring him in.
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| Quote ="Chris71"That may well be true nobody is questioning that. However its not the HB's job as a player to trawl through video and analyse the oppostion and work out tactics and game plans to help gain advantages and spot weaknesses. That is I believe where JW will be utilised and will help coach the players to assist and improve the attacking plays we have struggled with for years.
Why do you want to shove that responsibility on to a player? Surely the best thing to do is to take these responsibilites off players and work within a known series of structures/game plans which the team as a whole have worked on and are used to. Once these things are in place then the HB's role is to dictate the plays as the games unfold.
Bringing in JW is no sleight on Leon Pryce or Mark Sneyd far from it he is simply someone who can hopefully carry on the improvement in our attacking plays and help to achieve consistency.'"
Reviewing video is what Horne's doing, what makes you think I'm suggesting putting that on a player?
Like I've said before, pointless discussing it now, it's as good as done.
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| Quote ="Dave K."Why would anyone want to give Pryce any extra responsibility, he has been outstanding as a player this year, so lets him concentrate on that?
This clearly isn't a knee jerk reaction or we would have appointed a coach earlier in the season, when we were struggling, the club clearly think Webster will be an asset so are trying to bring him in.'"
That's my worry, that they think he'll be an asset. Done nothing to warrant it.
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| Quote ="*1865*"That's my worry, that they think he'll be an asset. Done nothing to warrant it.'"
As iv'e said in a previous post, that isn't true, Hull massively improved when he came as assistant coach.
I can't remember who was assistant coach in Agar first couple of years in charge?
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| Quote ="*1865*"That's my worry, that[u they think he'll be an asset[/u. Done nothing to warrant it.'"
This. I'll trust their judgement over yours.
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| Quote ="Dave K."As iv'e said in a previous post, that isn't true, Hull massively improved when he came as assistant coach.
I can't remember who was assistant coach in Agar first couple of years in charge?'"
2008/09 we had horrific injuries (Webster was Agar's assistant in 2009) in 2010 we signed Long, Fitz, O'Meley and Turner. Reckon these (the first 3 certainly) had a massive impact on our improvement.
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| Quote ="*1865*"2008/09 we had horrific injuries (Webster was Agar's assistant in 2009) in 2010 we signed Long, Fitz, O'Meley and Turner. Reckon these (the first 3 certainly) had a massive impact on our improvement.'"
Maybe that was the reason, but maybe Webster really improved things nobody will know, but the club believe he can improve us, so I'll trust that over a fans view (Who will have never seen him take a training session etc)
I'll have to check, but I don't think Webster joined us until 2010.
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| Quote ="Dave K."Maybe that was the reason, but maybe Webster really improved things nobody will know, but the club believe he can improve us, so I'll trust that over a fans view (Who will have never seen him take a training session etc)
I'll have to check, but I don't think Webster joined us until 2010.'"
Strange way to judge someone's opinion. How many SL coaches, good or bad, have you seen take a session?
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| Quote ="*1865*"Strange way to judge someone's opinion. How many SL coaches, good or bad, have you seen take a session?'"
Iv'e actually seen a few, plus a lot of players, but that's not the point anyway, as I am not saying if will be a good appointment or not, I'm going to trust Radford ( ) on this one.
I know a few lot of Hull and Rovers players who have been coached by Webster and are very positive about him.
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| Wenger Ferguson morinho the 3 most successful coaches of the last 25 years not one played football at a high standard the way your saying it ronaldo couldn't be taught anything by Ferguson because he wasn't as good as a player which is rubbish because coaching and playing are completely different but you carry on with your ridiculous argument
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| Quote ="*1865*"Reviewing video is what Horne's doing, what makes you think I'm suggesting putting that on a player?
Like I've said before, pointless discussing it now, it's as good as done.'"
But Horne is the Academy Coach and should be spending his time with the Academy which is another reason why the club and maybe looked at JW to allow Horne to concentrate on his role in the Academy set up
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| Quote ="Lang Park"My view is that given that the team has recently shown form that people have been crying out for why would you want to go adding a new coach into the mix. I think it has the potential to muddy the waters and undo a lot of the good work that has been done.'"
Good to see you 2 have sorted the little blip out. Always good opinions from you 2.
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| Quote ="*1865*"2008/09 we had horrific injuries (Webster was Agar's assistant in 2009) in 2010 we signed Long, Fitz, O'Meley and Turner. Reckon these (the first 3 certainly) had a massive impact on our improvement.'"
Why is it if a team are rubbish its the coach if they do well its the players? Not sure of Websters record as a coach but I know he was unbeaten with us and went on a longish unbeaten run with Wakey when taking over, started the season well and then the inevitable collapse came due to small squad, lack of resources and injuries to key players. Pretty harsh to judge anyone on those terms. His big failing was his approach to the media and the interview where he seemed to throw the towel in.
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| Quote ="*1865*"Not sure why anybody needs coaching it. If I'm running a play as a half back I want the players where I want them, not some structure somebody else has put in to place. Isn't organising part of the HB's job description?'"
That approach sounds pretty much exactly how we'd get several years of huge gulfs between performances with halfback consistency/availability problems.
There's a difference between getting a team well drilled and ready for your halfbacks to take control of, and essentially expecting the halfbacks to do the coaching for you. For an analogy, I'd think of the team as a car. The halfback is the driver, not the mechanic. They have input and take control, but it's not up to them to build and constantly maintain it.
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| Quote ="*1865*"No I didn't.
No I haven't.
Again, you just haven't understood what I said.
Go back to page 8 and read, this time read it in the context of the post I was replying to.'"
I've just read it again in context and still think it's cobblers. In a well-coached side, all the halfback should need to do a lot of the time is tell the players which play he is running, and then they would all know where they need to be and what they should be doing from strong preparation (done by the coaches, not the halfbacks, in training). Maybe you worded it badly, but your post really reads as if for each play the halfback needs to hold a quick conflab on the pitch to let all the players know their places.
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