Or just fickle?

Still, since we beat Catalans and Cas I guess we could yet have Rugby League's answer to Alex Ferguson on our hands

Or we could be half way through the season having played all teams once and be 4th in the table above Leeds Bradford Huddersfield etc

Some people are far too easily pleased. Even the 'Expro' would admit that Leeds will finish the season above us and being above Bradford hasn't been anything to write home about for a good while now. Hudds I'll grant you but even then they've had the allegations to contend with and a coach who has said he's going. Adding that to the facts that we play some of the most mind-numbing rugby in the competition, have flopped against far inferior sides on several occasions and as fans we have yet to see a single player improve under the current 'coach' I'd say the long-term view is still pretty bleak.

I don't doubt that we'll get to the playoffs in sone capacity, but can you honestly say when we do you can see Agar outwitting Smith, McLennan etc when it really counts?

I don't disagree with everything you say there but, Agar-specific threads like this one apart, it just disappoints me that it's so difficult to talk about Hull FC on this site because so many threads descend into Agar bashing. It's not my intention to defend Agar and suggest that he's got it all because he clearly hasn't. What I do mean to do is defend the board's decision to stand by one man to get some level of consistency and, hopefully, develop into a world-class coach. Now, it's the success of their business that depends upon it, so I suspect they believe their reasons are very good for standing behind him. I also believe that, long-term contract or not, any coach's position is very tenuous and he would soon be gone if he fails miserably. The second half of the season (with a fair wind) should see us with an almost full-strength squad - this will be a true test of his (and the team's) pedigree.

We could be doing even better imo without Agar. Ive not changed my mind on the back of a couple of wins vs poor opposition. I wont change my opinion if we beat Saints either. I really dont think Agar is up to it no matter how well we do performance wise.

Not quite sure I understand.

Are you saying that if our performances are good and we beat teams such as Saints with those good performances, you would still think Agar is not a good enough coach?

Thats exactly what im saying. Ive seen enough mistakes from Agar over the last couple of years without him learning from them. Ive also seen Agar turn a good 17 out every week he has been in charge and arm them with no gameplan and fail. Just because Long and Fitz are back we have started to perform. That for me is not a reflection of Agars coaching ability. He should have been getting more out of the players he had fit rather than moaning about injuries. Just my view though. Im not fickle!!

Me neither. I still have reservations about Agar and believe his coaching ability is a but limited but that said you can't argue about being 4th and also the fact that we have had to come through an injury crisis. The time to judge him is at the end of the season, we might finish 7th and not win a playoff game or we could finish 5th and get through to a playoff semi.

A long way to go yet.

Frustrating though isnt it. How good could we really be with a fully fit 17 and a decent coach!

You mention Long and Fitzgibbon, who signed and is currently coaching those players, if they play well he has to take credit for that, just like if Hall plays badly then Agar has to take some criticism for that.

IMO one of the important indicators of a good coach is how well he gets a side performing in adversity. This is where I have a major problem with Agar. Otherwise he's doing a [ireasonable[/i job, although one or two selections have been a tad confusing and use of the bench continues to be patchy. If he was showing signs of improvement in the areas where he is weak then people might cut him some more slack I feel.

Not sure about that mate. Long wrote our attack playbook. Fitz gives our defence the edge when he plays. Not sure what Agars role is there? Im also not sure that theres anything Agar could coach Long and Fitz so wont be giving him credit.

On the flip side if Hall plays well i'll give Agar credit. (as i will with any of our younger players) Hows Hall playing?

Agree with some of that, although I think we have been through adversity recently with many first-team players out and yet are still clinging on to fourth spot.

The reason for my question was that I was just intrigued by the statement - it seemed illogical. If the team performances improve and we beat teams such as Saints (who are one of three teams above us in the table) then wouldn't that be exactly what we want from our coach and team? Good performances beating the better teams - it's what I've been wanting for over twenty years.

So if our better players play well it's down to them.

Yet if our lesser players poorly it's Agar's fault.

Well have to disagree, I am not a big Agar fan but he deserves credit and criticism is equal measure.

Hall, he came on yesterday and put a great hit on and saved a try

Looking at those weaknesses would you appoint someone brand new into a role in Superleague with them? (or would you expect someone with those kind of weaknesses to move from an assistant role to a head coach role in the NRL to develop?)

If our more experienced players play well or add to the team its down to them. If our younger players consistently play poor you have to ask the question about what the coach is doing about it.

I agree Agar deserves praise and credit depending on the facts in question but i really havent seen anything that Agar has done to deserve credit.

We had a few injuries and we lost. We got players back and won. Whats he done about that? Moaned in the press about injuries rather than focussing on getting a performance out of the 17 fit guys that we had.

He's clueless mate.

I can't recall Agar moaning about injuries: I thought he kept saying that he doesn't want to talk about injuries. The media and others might point out that we have had injuries to many key-players but Agar seems to be saying that those who =#0040BFare playing are not "aiming up" or words to that effect.

Not got the time to find the articles but all i've heard for the last couple of months are about injuries from Agar.

It's true that we have been through adversity, and IMO we have performed more poorly than we should have when the team has been missing important players. The fact that we are still in 4th spot has a lot to do with a very even league this season and us getting key players back in time to capitalise against some of the weaker teams.

I'm not complaining about a spot of good fortune there BTW - all teams need some during the season and God knows we've had none over the last two years.


Don't disagree with that at all. I have some very specific concerns about Agar but that doesn't preclude giving him credit where it's due.

Here's one from May 2nd [urlhttp://www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=5992[/url where he mentions that some players are missing but he really concentrates on saying that those who make a noise about not being selected don't deliver the goods when they get the chance.

In the off-season he did a presentation at the fan's forum and I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of "this is the last time I want to mention injuries". Since then, I have noticed a distinct reluctance on Agar's part to discuss injures and I think it's because he doesn't want to be seen to be using it as an excuse. Rule has mentioned it in an article and I think Kath did so earlier in the season in one of the programmes but I think Agar is reticent about doing so. I'm sure if asked a direct question he'll discuss it and when players like Long return he'll say "we've missed him" but I don't think that counts as moaning.

Quote ="downtheante"Here's one from May 2nd [urlhttp://www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=5992[/url where he mentions that some players are missing but he really concentrates on saying that those who make a noise about not being selected don't deliver the goods when they get the chance. In the off-season he did a presentation at the fan's forum and I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of "this is the last time I want to mention injuries". Since then, I have noticed a distinct reluctance on Agar's part to discuss injures and I think it's because he doesn't want to be seen to be using it as an excuse. Rule has mentioned it in an article and I think Kath did so earlier in the season in one of the programmes but I think Agar is reticent about doing so. I'm sure if asked a direct question he'll discuss it and when players like Long return he'll say "we've missed him" but I don't think that counts as moaning.'" Talking about them rather than blaming them www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Take out four or five players and any team will take a hit www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Return of stars can bring control www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html I cant be bothered to look any further but i'd like to see an article that talks about what we've got on the pitch to really damage sides and forget the injuries. Agar may not talk directly about injuries but he eludes to them in most interviews.

Quote ="downtheante"Here's one from May 2nd [urlhttp://www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=5992[/url where he mentions that some players are missing but he really concentrates on saying that those who make a noise about not being selected don't deliver the goods when they get the chance. In the off-season he did a presentation at the fan's forum and I seem to remember him saying something along the lines of "this is the last time I want to mention injuries". Since then, I have noticed a distinct reluctance on Agar's part to discuss injures and I think it's because he doesn't want to be seen to be using it as an excuse. Rule has mentioned it in an article and I think Kath did so earlier in the season in one of the programmes but I think Agar is reticent about doing so. I'm sure if asked a direct question he'll discuss it and when players like Long return he'll say "we've missed him" but I don't think that counts as moaning.'" Talking about them rather than blaming them www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Take out four or five players and any team will take a hit www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Return of stars can bring control www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html I cant be bothered to look any further but i'd like to see an article that talks about what we've got on the pitch to really damage sides and forget the injuries. Agar may not talk directly about injuries but he eludes to them in most interviews.

Quote ="Big Dave T"Talking about them rather than blaming them www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Take out four or five players and any team will take a hit www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Return of stars can bring control www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html I cant be bothered to look any further but i'd like to see an article that talks about what we've got on the pitch to really damage sides and forget the injuries. Agar may not talk directly about injuries but he eludes to them in most interviews.'" Look, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind because that would be a waste of both of our time. But let me make one point: whether or not people blame inconsistent performances on major injury crises or not, to a large degree, they are to blame. Anyone who says a SL team wouldn't miss Long, Berrigan, Fitz, Horne, Calderwood and Manu (along with Lauaki, Cusack and other shorter-term injuries), particularly when Long, Horne and Berrigan were all missing together, would have to be being deliberately obtuse. Frankly, if he was blaming the inconsistency on injuries, I wouldn't care particularly. After KR lost to Saints, Justin Morgan rued missing only two players "But we'll bounce back. We've got lots of games to play. It will be good to get Jake Webster and Liam Colbon back - they are big members of our team - and, when we get a full complement, we will see some true form" (from the SL site).

Quote ="Big Dave T"Talking about them rather than blaming them www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Take out four or five players and any team will take a hit www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html Return of stars can bring control www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... ticle.html I cant be bothered to look any further but i'd like to see an article that talks about what we've got on the pitch to really damage sides and forget the injuries. Agar may not talk directly about injuries but he eludes to them in most interviews.'" Look, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind because that would be a waste of both of our time. But let me make one point: whether or not people blame inconsistent performances on major injury crises or not, to a large degree, they are to blame. Anyone who says a SL team wouldn't miss Long, Berrigan, Fitz, Horne, Calderwood and Manu (along with Lauaki, Cusack and other shorter-term injuries), particularly when Long, Horne and Berrigan were all missing together, would have to be being deliberately obtuse. Frankly, if he was blaming the inconsistency on injuries, I wouldn't care particularly. After KR lost to Saints, Justin Morgan rued missing only two players "But we'll bounce back. We've got lots of games to play. It will be good to get Jake Webster and Liam Colbon back - they are big members of our team - and, when we get a full complement, we will see some true form" (from the SL site).

When Leeds were losing at the beginning of the season all the talk was about their huge injury crisis too.

I'd give Agar a chance- About 100 metres start before I commenced shooting....




*Disclaimer*
This post is intended as a bit of light hearted fun and I do not intend to either injure nor kill Richard Agar, no matter how much I might like to. Please don't sue me Mr Lawyer.