So what we'll see in the future buses having to have a supervisor on board, seatbelts installed with sensors so we know which ones are undone, designated seats for kids so the supervisor knows who isn't wearing a seatbelt, signs everywhere telling children not to do the bleeding obvious (like stand on your head with ur feet on the emergency exit) just in case they are that bloody stupid...

..and then that kids parents will complain that the price of buses have gone up and that they can't afford it despite sitting on a wod of cash gained from their kids previous stupidity being cashed in on.

Yup, that pretty much covers it Wellsy, the abdication of parental responsibility to wider society has increased year on year. Parents wont be happy until there are no more youth clubs, scouts, guides etc etc because people will not put themselves at risk of litigation of this type. I used to, voluntarily, lifeguard for swimming gala's, I packed that in when someone wanted to sue the organiser for their child getting a veruca!

We should be very wary of the society we are creating, at some point someone is going to have to say "you know what, sometimes behaviour leads to accidents, not everything is preventable".

I look forward to the day when all Churches have to have a sign above the door declaring "WARNING:Marriage can lead to abject misery and financial ruin, enter at your peril".

You appear to have left the word "some" out of your sweeping generalisation.

While the abdication of personal and parental responsibility is one of my own favourite rant topics, there are still many responsible parents in this country and the majority of children behave at least acceptably. As one of those responsible parents I take umbrage with being lumped in with the assorted wasters who plague our society.

Apologies Kosh, I know the majority of parents are actually very responsible, the problem is it's the worst parents with the worst kids that aren't.

How is Damo?

There are many children in society who endure severe hardships, parents who engage in drug and alcoholic abuse..children who are sexually and physically abused, children who are raised by parents whose values are questionable within our societies norms, however many of these unfortunate children manage to overcome such adversity and do well with their lives..
There are also children who are raised by parents who believe their values to be right, (there are many variations of peoples perceptions of values within our society), these parents consider themselves superior in certain ways to a point that they can preach to others, the children from these parents come in all forms, some successful like the other group doing well in their life's, some embarking on alcohol and drug addiction, thieves,and rapists etc etc.
Parents play an important role in the development of a child, however this is only a small role, society and the people within society play an even greater role, Schools, media,adults etc etc.

Parents play a much bigger role, or should if they can be bothered. My ideals, standards and values were imprinted on me initially by my family, some have changed gradually over time, because of society, but I am still very much the son my mother and father raised (with help from my grandmother, aunt and sister)

Maybe you should have bothered to read my post..I never posted [uraising[/u a child, I posted the [uDevelopment[/u of a child..
A child's development is the mainly dealt with by a parent until approx 3 years old, at which point the child's development is not exclusive to a parent, the child attends nursery to interact with other children & adults, at 5 further development by teachers, the child goes to school to learn, interact, etc etc..
The child will learn certain values and behaviours from their parents and family however they are also part of other establishments within society in which they will be exposed to more values and standards some times different in that particular environment..They build other relationships through the process with other children & adults who can play an influential part in their development.They are also exposed to the media on a daily basis, all these factors make us who we are.

Oh and as long as the child and parent have a good open relationship (friends) hopefully they can discuss all these different experiences they encounter whilst developing.

I strongly disagree with this. By far and away the biggest influence on the development of a child are the parents/guardians.

Indeed, parental influence has a huge bearing, as I have seen from families on sink estates that simply do not have any ambition beyond pregnancy and a flat of their own, likewise I see driven families determined to better their lot, and it isn't society that drives them, it's family.

I do not disagree that a parent is in the position to be the biggest influence to a child, however the development of a child's academic ability, social interaction skills (with other children etc) are developed in different areas of society.Children are exposed to a lot of different situations in different environments, these experiences within society play a major role with development.
Although they are exposed to our views, ideas etc, they are also exposed to a great deal more from a very young age. Once a child reaches school age they spend a lot of waking hours with other people during what is a very influential age.

I guess it depends how much time parents spend discussing the various influences.

There you go with your generalisations again, from your phrase sink estate, I know a leading solicitor, 6 nurses, a doctor, oh and a vet to name a few..I also from one of these estates is educated to degree level.
I also know a politicians son who is a crack head

You specifically stated that non-parental influences are greater than parental influences, which is what I disagreed with. What you state above is different. I still disagree with most of it, though.

Let's take academic ability. Leaving aside natural potential (all children are not born with the same potential), parents play a crucial role here. From engendering the correct attitudes to learning and achievement to supporting the child at home and even providing additional learning opportunities, parents have a huge role to play. Almost without exception the highest achieving children have supportive and involved parents, and vice versa.

Social interaction is again hugely influenced by parents. If a child has had quality interaction with it's parents from an early age it is far more likely to develop successful interaction with both peers and other adults.

Parents also have an important role in mediating outside influences and ensuring that children are equipped to be properly critical of information and experiences they encounter in their 'outside' lives.

Perhaps most importantly, a good parent is constantly aware (as much as is possible) of what their children are interested in and what they are doing. They talk to them about important issues. In short, they properly prepare them to deal with life and instil them with the correct attitudes.

The groundwork laid at a very early age has a continuing influence throughout the life of a child.

Im speaking from experience, as are you, take your head out of your and respond to the post, not the username.

OK

by the way, which estates, if you're talking estates in Hull then there are NO sink estates, I doubt you have much experience of true depravation.

Your post is indeed correct, clearly your parenting responsibilities and mine are the same..however maybe I have not put my point across very well, I am with you that parents play an influential role with the development of their child,and set the platform, some more than others. However different environments and people play a bigger role in the development, a more diverse role, nursery, schools, adults, peers, various activities and different groups all count for the experiences of the child, they are exposed to varying influences, attitudes and values, they will interact with hundreds of people, and encounter hundreds of different situations many times without the parents presence and influence, this all contributes to a child development and helps to form the child's own ideas and attitudes.

I have a lot of experience..My degree is in Social & Behavioural Studies, I have not just read about it I have seen it. However not sure what good that is with people like you who know every-thing about everything

You know, this is a really interesting debate and it reminded me of my mother. She had a big personality and my decision-making was greatly influenced by how I thought she would react. She died when my son was one year old and I was saddened that she would never see him grow up or that he would never be positively influenced by her. It was soon evident as he became a toddler that some of his expressions and mannerisms were the same as hers (i.e. mine)... she was still influencing him because of the bearing she had had on my development. So I think parental influence goes beyond the current generation either directly or indirectly.

Characteristics are often transferred to various members of the family..If I had a £1 every-time my husband says "God your like your Nanna"

she was a strong willed outspoken female! however I must admit I do admire these characteristics in a female.

have you seen it though, or just read about it?

I think this is getting close to being personal, and there is no reason for it to become so. I have been involved in social housing in Glasgow, which is where the worst examples I have seen are drawn from, I dont claim to know everything, but I do know the facts I have borne witness to, as you attest to the same.

You're not a parent so no matter what experience you have you can't understand what a parent goes through. It's not a criticism it's just the way it is. Kids change you and your outlook on life, you won't feel the same way if you have not had your own kids.

Being kept in hospital for more than 24 hours is RIDDOR reportable, doesnt make a difference how you arrived.

As I posted I have seen a lot of deprivation, first hand, also I have done voluntary work/research with groups who encounter various degrees of suffering within society whilst I was studying.

This is not getting personal for me, however I suggest you read your posts, this may offer you an insight into the replies/reactions you get. I enjoy debating/discussing various topics with posters as the majority whether they agree or disagree appear to have the skills to debate/discuss, and know when to agree to disagree without it getting stupid.

again, I ask where you have seen it, it provides context.