Horne and Seymour have their critics, but I think today showed we have been caught up with the hype of having '4 SL standard' Half-Backs, both Ellis and Nicklas were anonymous IMO.

Our kicking game was very poor, with most kicks going straight down Tomkins throat and neither player offered anything with ball in hand.

I'm sure they will both come good in time...but as I say I think we have been swept up with the hype a bit and badly need Horne and Seymour's experience back in the side.

While we are talking about the kicking game, I have to criticize how Tickle kicks to the same spot from every kick-off, he kicks to the 3rd man in the oppositions left-hand side with every kick off, which makes us very predictable to play against.

Very hard for halfbacks to do much when they have no room to work. Ellis on kicks especially needs to get a bit deeper as he was closed down too easily at times today.

Still they will continue to improve and this is all good experience for them.

As for Tickles kick offs they are very predictable, and even when we are in with a shout of coming back he doesn't alter them.

I reckon Ellis will make it but Nicklass will struggle

if horne had kicked like eliis today their would be posters baying for blood!

miss horne more from our squad than most would like to admit!

Ellis has had a hell of a lot more game time in the Championship and that is why he looks more competent. Nicklas has had to make do with the U20's and the competition is nowhere near as fierce and competitive as the Championship.
Gentle seems to think Nicklas has a good future ahead of him.

Agree we miss Horne but I've got to defend Ellis a little though. His kicking today wasn't up to the standard we know he can play and he will know that, however he did a lot of good work in defence and finding a gap for his try. Wigan were very quick out of the blocks when we played the ball leading to a lot of pressure on our kickers on at the end of our sets. They'll all be better for the experience.

One thing that I noticed today is that we seemed to go back to last seasons tatics and apply a drop off every set!

Not many of the Wigans kicks 'split' winger and full back.
Our forwards gave pathetically slow ptb's today. If we're playing for position our quickest in the tackle should be taking the 5th tackle in. Can't do anything being allowed to be pressured like they did.

yea we where poor today, but hey as been said we had a lot missing and wigan to there credit played well,2 weeks off get players back , onwards and upwards

Ellis looks like he has the tools to make a decent SL half back, however he needs to remember he is not in the championship and get used to the speed of the game in super league. Too often he is wanting time on the ball that simply isn't there.

dont agree jamie, ellis will not make it in SL not good enough mate

Bit early to be saying that. He reminds me a lot of brough when he was with us. Good boot on him, plenty of effort, not bad in defence but looks lost with ball in hand. Could come good or disappear into oblivion

I agree.

Halfbacks are a valuable commodity and if they are not on game it is very apparent. We have Danny Nicholas coming through as well but you either have to bring in a youngster who can develop into a very good player or buy that player in and the best ones are very expensive especially with the NRL cap now being as high as it is.

Ellis needs to be given a chance, you don't win Championship player of the year and young player of the year without having something about you. He might never be the player we want him to be but he needs that chance.

FFS, Tomkins is perhaps in the top three of rugby league fullbacks. Of ourse Ellis is gonna kick down his throat, thats what great fullbacks do, move around and chase the area the ball is going into and this Tomkins is outstanding. Cracking side Wigan. End of.

Got to Agree with you there, Tompkins positional play when defending kicks was superb, don't knock the kicker

Is he? In SL yes but not in the world.

Tomkins was superb again today. On another day some of Ellis'/Nicko's kicks would have found ground, and maybe even gone for 40/20s, but Tomkins read them so well and sprinted to catch them on the full.

Wigan's defence got right in their faces and gave them little time to kick the way they wanted to.

His ability to catch the ball running back towards his own line means the halves need that extra thinking time that a good pack going forwards provides. You can't rely in him to make an error even knocking it backwards. The guy is like stretch armstrong, only problem is, he knows it.

Today's kicking was made to look ordinary by the quality of Tomkins. Often he sprinted 20-30 yards sideways to take a kick on the full.

Personally I think Ellis will make it in SL. He is prepared to take the line on which is something all good halves should have in their locker. Of the games Nickas has been involved in so far, there hasn't been much sparkle, IMO.

Tomkins was superb , Mopped up every thing we gave him. I 'd love Ellis to attack the line a bit more instead of opting for the pass all the time but like a few have mentioned , He'll come good eventually. Nicholas reminds me a bit like Anthony Thackeray .

Agreed.

As for the halfbacks, it was difficult circumstances for them up against a quality side behind a struggling pack, but they were still disappointing IMO. That was easily Ellis' worst performance with the boot for us, and his passing wasn't much to write home about either, yet he was actually the better of the 2. I thought Nicklas was massively out of his depth and made several wrong decisions with sloppy execution to boot. Hopefully he will learn a lot from the experience.

Don't think Ellis will make the grade,needs a vast improvement in many area's of his game,IMO.

Out of the two Ellis looks the more promising. He has a fantastic kicking game (usually),decent defence, isn't afraid to take the line on and can create things with ball in hand. One thing I don't think he is lacking is confidence, I actually think he believes in what he does, although it doesn't always come off and his head never drops afterwards.

Niklas though I just don't see it with him.

The thing I like about Ellis is that he doesn't let failure put him off. A ball player in League has to have the confidence to keep wanting the ball and trying to execute without worrying when it goes wrong. Players who don't touch the ball don't make mistakes. Ellis looks to have that Cooke quality where he can make a complete cock up and immediately start telling everyone elsewhat to do. That's what he has to do do , have confidence in his ability and persevere. It would be nice to see him stay there for the rest of the season. He's either going to prove himself or maybe prove he's not up to it but at least we'd know. No point in keeping him in the 20's blocking the development of someone else. Lets just give him a chance and enjoy the good bits.

Sorry but i dont agree, defence i think he is slow (fitness)?, ball in hand taking on the line i havnt seen anything yet, ""fantastic kicking game" better than we are used to but not fantastic. No were near Horney yet as a player hopefully in the future, maybe a couple of seasons away