I've seen a few threads on other boards talking about the England team for the World Cup, a lot are stating Ellis has been average.

Personally I think he has been very good so far this year and we look a miles better team when he plays. His defence is the best in SL and if there was stat for forced errors he would be near the top.

I still don't think we use him correctly, but so far I am very happy with his season so far.

I think that a lot were expecting him to rip up trees and bust every tackle.

For me he's started steadily, but is building in form and mixing it with the best of them at the right end of the season.

Really starting to lead from the front now too.

He's got the best defence in the league.

If other people think Farrell is good enough to cope against Bird, Lewis, Gallen etc. then more fool them.

As an outsider (probably more liable to see the bad than the good) I don't think Ellis has hit the 'expected' highs for a player that is such a big profile signing. New environment, playing in a team that hasn't played well (consistently) and his early injury wont have helped. Once the team gets more settled and he has another off season to get the team to utilise him better and he will no doubt be back to his best.

Bottom line is there really isn't much argument around which English 2nd rower would replace him in the squad. I'd have thought him and Westwood would be the first two choice for the WC

With Burgess (Sam) at 13 that's a very good back row.

Ellis is getting better the more game time he is getting, its not just what he gives as a player but what he expects from his team mates that makes him the quality player that he is.

Ellis was head and shoulders above any other player on the pitch last weekend and has shown some real form over the last few weeks. He will be a shoe in for England and I agree with the earlier poster who said anyone who thinks the likes of Farrell etc. is a better choice then I would question it.

he has started to bust holes into defences now as well - i think this in part has been helped with the inclusion of Miller, who knows the lines that Ellis likes to run.

His defence has been impecable throughout. With the amount of games he has missed this year, he should still be fresh

He hasn't played much rugby in the last season and a half. He improves with every game I've seen him in for Hull. Some people have little idea how hard it is to come back into the top level after lengthy injury absences. Had a stormer on Sunday and will get better still. Not fussed either way if he gets picked for England but suspect that he will.

You'll call me biased but I'd go

11 Westwood
12 S.Burgess
13 O'Loughlin

17 Farrell/Ellis - Depending on form, if it was tomorrow then Ellis, but Farrell was killing it earlier in the year. I've not seen much of Hock since he went to Widnes, he could push himself into the running if he stops the brainfarts. I suspect McManara will go with Ellis at 11 and Westwood on the bench.

I just think he's been a pretty underwhelming player but to be honest it is very hard not to be an underwhelming player with the standards he had in the nrl and the expectations of him before he came. He just isn't the player I thought he would be and In both Derbys this year he did nothing to make me feel anything but he's a underwhelming player! If you compare his stats to someone like chris greens you will maybe think the same as I do

A less likely scenario would be hard to imagine.

Ellis has been getting better as the season goes on, not always easy coming back from injury. He will be a shoe in for the WC probably along with Westwood with Sam B at 13.

I suggest you watch magic again. I never noticed so much when there but watching it back hulls momentum pick up starts pretty much with Ellis. His defence, running always rises most when times are hardest. Leader of men. Best player on field on Sunday

Ellis has to be number one second rower ahead of Westwood and co. He performs in big games and is proven. Westwood has had a top season but playing against the Aussie and Kiwi back row is completely different. Most top SL players shy away in Internationals unless playing France and the poorer teams.

the other point about ellis is he know the aussie players, their strengths and weaknesses and things they are likely to do during a game. he'll be more aware of their threats than the other players

He was outstanding on Sunday, ran Holdsworth very close for MOTM for me, Westy wasnt too far behind either

Reminds me of Stephen Kearney. Remember how many people on here were bagging him? Started the season slowly, then got better and better. Kearneys influence on the Hull side, particuarly the youngsters at the time was evident. Having Ellis in the side will pay dividends for years to come. Want to see how good he is, watch the replay of sunday in the lead up to linehams try. Affects 4 tackles in a row, dislodging the ball from hodgson with a massive Hit.

Kearney was a player where I felt it was a genuine priveledge to watch him in black and white and I feel exactly the same about Ellis. If you want to see what he means to the rest of the team, watch how they mobbed him at the end.

Ellis is a player's player. Ask any of his team mates, past or present, how they rate him and the replies will be unanimous. There will always be the idiots who don't see what he does, but I bet there's not a player in the country who wouldn't want him alongside them at international level.

You may not notice everything he does, but you certainly notice when he's not there to do it.

I thought o'meley was motm....just because his impact when he made every tackle was bone crunching

what's the saying? - you would want him in the trenches beside you

I'd want him in the trenches instead of me.

He was immense on sunday

Backed it up with another big performance tonight. Also, thought it was a nice touch for the team to come over and applaud the fans before the game, which I think he instigated.

They did it at Catalans for the cup match, and I believe at Huddersfield?