hasn't got an ounce of aggression in it. St's made 60/70 metres almost every set ours struggled to get out of our 20.

I actually thought we were much better at clearing our line tonight, it's just we don't have any effective 5th tackle plays

Hopefully with Hame, Fitz and another prop on the way this will be changed.

For now though I agree. Thacks, and sometimes Tickle, are the only men who either break a tackle or if not turn to offload.

your right there's no aggression

but having one prop (this week Maloney) sat on the bench all night hardly helps matters.

wouldn't renew Thackrays contract, I think he's half the player he was in 2005, when teams would fear his arrival on the pitch.

Thought Thackray was good tonight, particularly in his first stint, and Kingy did OK as well, although under-utilised.

In general, though, we don't have a single player in our pack that the opposition would be relieved to see interchanged. I'd say apart from Manu, but we choose to flog our best/only impact player for 80 minutes when he's fit.

i agree with that, he aint anywhere as good as he was

i thought he did ok, but didn't just mean tonight I meant his whole 2nd spell with us in general has been average IMO

too bloody right- a prop on the bench unused is a complete waste of an interchange spot. agar just cannot handle the interchanges

for what its worth i though mcrae was the best coach we have had at managing this aspect of the game

I would renew him for sure, would rather have him then most of our props and is often the only one to show enthusiasm when running with the ball. Even when defending, when he quickly caught the loose ball and ran 20 metres into their half.

Absolutely right and has been a problem for seasons now. Not getting Crocker was a hammer blow we need more forwards who wont accept being owned as the norm.

As we were against Leeds. Tony and Raynor are two of the best in the league (probably [ithe[/i best in Raynor's case) in this area and it's something we struggled with massively whilst they were out.

Until we address the issues with our forwards we will continue to struggle, I agree Lauaki, Fitz & Manu will make a difference but we need another massive prop really badly. As for clearing our line, I think a lot of that's due tp Raynor & Tony, it's certainly not done to our forwards we're far too light.

o'mealey was linked with wigan, dont know if the guys out of contract but if he is he'd be worth a shot.

No aggression mixed with different players being under used or over used. Lauaki is missed as is Crocker. Moa brings more aggression than any of them.

Thought our pack did well, we had as much territory as Saints but dont have the class to make it count.

I thought when Saints went down the middle we handled them well, but when they throw the ball out wide, they looked so dangerous.

I thought our pack were poor last night. Only Kingy when he came on ruffled a few feathers. I agree with a previous poster about the interchanges. Give them shorter spells so they can be a bit more in. Thought Radford was poor last night.

Kingy played with some fire and Maloney(WHEN HE GETS ON THE FIELD MR AGAR) always rattles some cages.

and how much time did maloney get on the pitch??as for thackray,i'd give him another year,as he and tickle are the only one's doing it at the mo.dowes,kingy,radders to me should be on borrowed time

dont think our pack did too bad but its hard to gain yardage when its one man all the time. saints and other teams gain more by expanding play to the second rowers/centres and getting the ball away from the ruck area. allows quicker rugby,quicker play the balls and more yardage. simple but effective sets work well like this.

Yup. They also use dummy runners so that 4 tacklers arent just stood there waiting for the runner.

When some fans say "our pack did ok", I think what they mean is "our pack worked hard" which is all most of them are capable of. We have a pack full of forwards who, on the whole, are not big enough, not aggressive enough and not good enough.

Until we can get rid of the bulk of these very ordinary forwards like Cusack, Dowes, Radford, King, nothing is going to change.

The signings we are making for next season are certainly promising but they will not be enough on their own. Our pack (along with not really having a SH) is the single biggest example of mediocrity that currently stops us from competing with the best.

Should we really be happy to keep the score down and show some effort when Saints come to the KC ?? Is that how far the bar has been lowered at our club ???

I think there was a thread earlier in the season on the VT saying our pack was the best in the league, how times have changed. Our pack lacks speed and mobility.

It's ironic that we base our game on playing it down the middle, yet we have a modest workmanlike pack.
It was men against boys last night.

Gareth Carvell has gone, and we haven't got an adequate replacement. He was our main go forward guy imo.

Just as Briscoe was our rock, we never replaced him, and just as Cooke was the playmaker we never replaced him.

We will struggle to reach the heights we have seen in recent years unless we strengthen instead of taking steps back.

the Hull props never seem to run onto a ball a pace James Graham did this very well last night and made lots of yards. pack rotation was a joke!