Due to the lack of youngsters given a chance in the 1st team, I've decided to compare the number of them against the amount of foreigners we've signed.

This is from the start of the 2007 season to present (including those signed for 2012):

[uForeign Legion:[/u

Matt Sing, Willie Manu, Hutch Maiava, Matthew Head, Adam Dykes, Shaun Berrigan, Todd Bryne, Peter Cusack, Adel Fellous, Michael Crocker, Sam Moa, Josh Cordoba, Hame Lauaki, Mark O'Meley, Craig Fitzgibbon, Sam Obst, Cameron Phelps, Wade McKinnon, Aaron Heremaia, Brett Seymour.

That comes to 20, and the club have made room for the possibility of signing one more.

[uThrough our Academy:[/u

Danny Houghton - Current 1st Team
Tom Briscoe - Current 1st Team
Craig Hall - released.
Ant Thackray - released.
Mike Burnett - a fair few 1st team apps, loaned out.
Josh Hodgson
Danny Nicklas
Reece Lyne
Liam Cunningham
*Lee, Washy & Wheeldon all played prior to 2007.

This comes to just 9 players, 4 of which have played less than 5 games. In the same time we also gave game time to three Leeds youngsters; Broughton, Williams & McShane.

For a club that used to be known as one of the best for bringing through homegrown talent, this doesn't look too good.

Why bring kids in when you can disrupt half of the team instead

It is hard to make comments about our youngsters/homegrown when they are simply not getting the chance to play in the first team under Agar. Like Jake points out Agars policy seems to be move 4 or 5 people to cover one position yet other teams (strangely the more successful ones) see no problem promoting the youngster who plays in the position needed.

The last few games of the season would be ideal to throw some of the young lads in but you just know it wont happen.

I bet that young back rowers Green, Kent and Cunningham were overjoyed to see that Hull had made an offer to 32 year old Andrew Ryan rather than give one of them a shot.
Green and Cunningham are both more than ready for Super League rugby in my opinion.

This conclusively dispels the myth that Agar is some kind of youth development guru. His record for bringing youngsters through is shocking, and certainly no better than Noble's who often gets criticised for not giving youth a chance.

It's not just Agar TBF. Kear used to shuffle half the team to accommodate an injury (he got the nickname 'tinkerman' as a result and has kept it at Wakey) and Sharp wasn't much different (although he had fewer options due to sheer number of injuries). No surprise that a coach who learned his trade under those two carries on with the same policy.

Just playing devils advocate here, is it the coaches to blame as you say or where they all of the opinion that the crop of youngsters we have had in recent years simply are not good enough to step up.

if that is the case then we shouldn't have been giving them false hope by awarding professional contracts, and also we shouldn't have been wasting our money on them.

i totally agree, just trying to rationalise why we have had so few yougsters come through. After all Sharp and Agar obviously saw something in Briscoe and Houghton that they where promoted to regular 1st teamers, why no others??, you can only sumise that they dont think they are good enough.

If that was the case then Agar should have removed Andy Last from his position.

but Andy is part of the furniture at Hull FC, as has been said before, too much sentimentality on the part of FC when it comes to making difficult decisions.

That's what I meant, it's either Agar's fault for not being able to develop youngsters properly in the first team once the youth system has done its job, or the youth system isn't doing its job well enough and it's Agar's fault for not taking action to ensure that it improves.

This is a criticism Morgan has thrown at him a lot and prior to Saturday the call was to play the lads. Sheriff plaid on Saturday, had a bad one and now Morgan is a tool because he didn't move Welham to fb, hall to wing etc and has killed Sherif's career.... Fans are great in hindsight and very quick to jump on a decision that didnt work. I seem to remember Agar getting criticised for throwing Lynne in.

So its Agars fault either way then?

Without a doubt!

If he were to play youngsters and not make the playoffs he would be slaughtered as well , he cant win either way..

You are right to some extent. When discussing the squad for next season it was mentioned we didn't need to sign any fowards on one thread and promote some of the youngsters. Posters were then saying our squad wouldn't be good enough. Fans want young local players but then complain when they are not up to scratch 4/5 games later.

However, Agar has failed in the last two seasons with young players, they should have had more chances so we know if they are good enough or not.

were both right and both wrong paul, the trouble is he is (wether some believe it or not) in the job of trying to win silverware so kids and promising youngsters simply do not fit into that criteria with the playoffs within our grasp... should we however totally drop out of contention then i am sure things would change but right now we are hanging on by our fingernails to that 8th spot and as such isnt the right time for a promising young Pearce or similar not until the wheel completely comes off if you see my meaning

He could have used them at home to Oldham and could also use them instead of playing injured players. Otherwise what's the point in them if they never get a game?

I cant disagree with you on that [point Paul

Indeed, also if we are to believe Agar is trying to win silverware then why hasn't he tried a few different options when the side are blatantly not performing, why have Sharp on the bench and not play him, at least name one of the youngsters on the bench.

Didn't we start naming a youngster in the 18/19, which lasted about two weeks?!?!?!?

The ones he has promoted, Briscoe and Houghton have being a fantastic success and could probably walk into any team in SL. why have no others come through? like with those two lads, surely if the coaching staff thought they were good enough they would have given them a shot?
Will youg Nicklas ever get a shot in the first team? with the half backs we have signed up, it seems very unlikely now, hence you can only sumise that they dont rate the lad.

I think they rate him, I think what they don't rate is the likelihood of getting a full season out of Horne or the possibility of retaining Long. If we are concerned wether our youngsters are good enough they should be being loaned out so they are playing competitive games every week, it just seems we let them stagnate, and that isn't right.

I do get that, we had plenty berating Agar for playing Lyne at Salford last season, yes he didn't have a great game but then neither did any of the team to be fair and to single him out like some did was not fair on him.

People say this player and that player are not ready for super league but until they are thrown into it we will never know. By all accounts (Wilfs diary etc) Sam Moa was not exactly setting the reserves alight last season yet when he came into the 1st team he transformed into a different player.

We had a few opportunities to play some youngsters this season. We played Donny in our first friendly were Williams was the stand out player, yet the week after we play Cas in a friendly and Agar thought it best to play the full 1st team rather than have a sprinkling of youth in there to see how they fare against super league opposition. Again like Paul said we had the Oldham and the Widnes games to give a few players a runout. Aldous & Kent (or was it Cunnigham?) had a little but of game time against Oldham but not too much.

We have around 8 youth players named in our first team squad but very few have even set foot on the pitch in a competitive game. Why stick someone like Sharp on the bench for a 5 minute cameo he may as well stick one of the youngster on the bench.