For whatever reason we decided to play a predominently forward biased game, straight up the middle little or no offloads and lack of support any way which suited the Crusaders as it was easier for them.

The times we did spread it wide we scored as we stretched them and had too much pace and power.

Apart from the odd wrong option Shaul had a good game and showed his pace.

Cunningham was ok did the basics but a little wayward with his passing.

Don't think Moa and Manu would have made a lot of difference today due to our style of play and probably relaxed attitude to the game.

Are you kidding me? I think you need to watch Gaz Ellis for the past few seasons. He is unreal, especially in attack.

Ellis and Manu are completely different players IMO.. Manu you had his strength, ability to create something from nothing and generally a battering ram.

Ellis is an all round second rower. Strength, reads the game well, pick out a good pass when needed, basically a great player

Why are people interpreting 'different types of player' as one not being as good as another? It's nothing of the sort.

Exactly what I was getting at. Manu and Hock are mainly about brute force and blasting through opposition players. Their freakish strength at this means that they can often still be effective from poor team positions and slow PTB, and can produce something from nothing on their own. IMO Ellis is a much smarter player than either who runs better lines at gaps and chooses his passes much better, but this is more dependent on those around him helping him out and being on the same wavelength. If we do this he'll be brilliant for us, but if we continue to have a slow PTB and use 'pass it to Ellis to make something' tactics in the same way as we did with Manu I think we'll be sorely disappointed.

Ellis will make a huge difference to our pack, he's a great defender but also a very good attacking player. Add his leadership to his skills and he will lift us for certain.

That said our pack needs some work for next season, with Ogre and Ticks likely to go there is cash there for the right player.