yes let's now start counting the Catalan players who stand, first game was just falou in there last game I think there was three that stood up

keep politics out of sport they seem to do it with no problem with the Olympics while parts of the world suffer in poverty

Well apart from the fact that we've had the USA and Germany boycott the Olympics in Russia, Russia boycott the Olympics in USA, 11 Athletes killed in Munich, South Africa banned from participating for over 30 years, think African nations boycotted becuase of NZ RU team going to South Africa, etc

Though the Olympic Committee have said publicly that no political protest or gestures are allowed, including taking a knee in the next Olympics.......we'll see how that goes. Someone will do it.

I don't really see a problem with keeping it open If people want to discuss it why not.

I set the rules out at the beginning
[iTo be clear, these are the rules of engagement....
Allowed
Civil discussion about BLM, the Wakefield players actions at the Wigan game, and racism in rugby league

Not Allowed
Sharing racist material
Calling another user racist
Making accusations that a particular club, player, owner, manager, mascot is racist or that a clubs supporters are racist
Personal comments about other posters

and please adhere to all the other AUP guidance.[/i

Scarlet hasn't gone against those rules, he's just ill informed.

And sorry DC, this may be a clever way of skirting round the "calling someone a racist" but its kinda the same. Let's not do that.

And there was this,

Yeah and it hasn't really got us anywhere has it......???

What the BLM Movement fails to understand and indeed many who support their ideologies or sympathise with them is you never change mindsets through browbeating, intimidation or labelling people. Their founders are self declared Marxists. It's questionable their motives. Black Lives Matter but some are saying All Lives matter. Some and I mean some then say the illegal immigrants boats should sink when coming to the UK. Clearly all lives dont matter then! Others say All Lives matter in frustration. Again a debate could be had around this but calling someone racist isn't the right way to go. The argument is that All lives aren't at risk as much as Black Lives. I fully understand this but the Black Lives that are at risk the most are children dying of starvation and disease in African countries. Indeed slavery still exists including many forms for black people. I havent seen these issues mentioned and you could argue it is because that doesn't help the politics of the movement. Only Black people killed by police Officers seem to get the attention. I've absolutely no doubt the Police could perform better and that their performance, misconduct and manslaughter/murder needs high quality independent analysis. However they do get uneccessarry stick from people actively trying to catch them out in anyway they can. They protect and serve us and whilst we can ask for reform we must respect how well they do in many situations. Wakefield displayed absolute courage doing what they did knowing some fans and the media would want to catch them out. I was proud of everyone because I know we aren't a racist team or club. Of course some people with racist agendas will tag on the back of it. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. If someone puts out a tweet or such like against child Grooming, you can't stop EDL supporters retweeting it. Doesn't make it wrong. The players were sitting ducks and Sky and others should never have allowed that to happen. Utilising the governing bodies Anti-Racism policies was the way to go. T-shirts saying no to racism and a banner with the same where all players mixed in and stood behind it would have been great! Back to the start here but if you want to change mindsets, help people be more empathetic about situations, the best way is through exchange of information in a pleasant way. Don't call people racist (Even if you think it) and provide information that helps the cement that holds their thoughts together to crack. If you want to see poetry in motion in respect of this, I suggest typing Daryl Davis infiltrates the KKK into a search engine and watch the video! He's changed white supremacists thinking this way. Great watch if you've not seen it https://youtu.be/waVrJEIfahc

What the BLM Movement fails to understand and indeed many who support their ideologies or sympathise with them is you never change mindsets through browbeating, intimidation or labelling people. Their founders are self declared Marxists. It's questionable their motives. Black Lives Matter but some are saying All Lives matter. Some and I mean some then say the illegal immigrants boats should sink when coming to the UK. Clearly all lives dont matter then! Others say All Lives matter in frustration. Again a debate could be had around this but calling someone racist isn't the right way to go. The argument is that All lives aren't at risk as much as Black Lives. I fully understand this but the Black Lives that are at risk the most are children dying of starvation and disease in African countries. Indeed slavery still exists including many forms for black people. I havent seen these issues mentioned and you could argue it is because that doesn't help the politics of the movement. Only Black people killed by police Officers seem to get the attention. I've absolutely no doubt the Police could perform better and that their performance, misconduct and manslaughter/murder needs high quality independent analysis. However they do get uneccessarry stick from people actively trying to catch them out in anyway they can. They protect and serve us and whilst we can ask for reform we must respect how well they do in many situations. Wakefield displayed absolute courage doing what they did knowing some fans and the media would want to catch them out. I was proud of everyone because I know we aren't a racist team or club. Of course some people with racist agendas will tag on the back of it. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. If someone puts out a tweet or such like against child Grooming, you can't stop EDL supporters retweeting it. Doesn't make it wrong. The players were sitting ducks and Sky and others should never have allowed that to happen. Utilising the governing bodies Anti-Racism policies was the way to go. T-shirts saying no to racism and a banner with the same where all players mixed in and stood behind it would have been great! Back to the start here but if you want to change mindsets, help people be more empathetic about situations, the best way is through exchange of information in a pleasant way. Don't call people racist (Even if you think it) and provide information that helps the cement that holds their thoughts together to crack. If you want to see poetry in motion in respect of this, I suggest typing Daryl Davis infiltrates the KKK into a search engine and watch the video! He's changed white supremacists thinking this way. Great watch if you've not seen it https://youtu.be/waVrJEIfahc

Quote ="Mick Amos 9 WTW"What the BLM Movement fails to understand and indeed many who support their ideologies or sympathise with them is you never change mindsets through browbeating, intimidation or labelling people. Their founders are self declared Marxists. It's questionable their motives. Black Lives Matter but some are saying All Lives matter. Some and I mean some then say the illegal immigrants boats should sink when coming to the UK. Clearly all lives dont matter then! Others say All Lives matter in frustration. Again a debate could be had around this but calling someone racist isn't the right way to go. The argument is that All lives aren't at risk as much as Black Lives. I fully understand this but the Black Lives that are at risk the most are children dying of starvation and disease in African countries. Indeed slavery still exists including many forms for black people. I havent seen these issues mentioned and you could argue it is because that doesn't help the politics of the movement. Only Black people killed by police Officers seem to get the attention. I've absolutely no doubt the Police could perform better and that their performance, misconduct and manslaughter/murder needs high quality independent analysis. However they do get uneccessarry stick from people actively trying to catch them out in anyway they can. They protect and serve us and whilst we can ask for reform we must respect how well they do in many situations. Wakefield displayed absolute courage doing what they did knowing some fans and the media would want to catch them out. I was proud of everyone because I know we aren't a racist team or club. Of course some people with racist agendas will tag on the back of it. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. If someone puts out a tweet or such like against child Grooming, you can't stop EDL supporters retweeting it. Doesn't make it wrong. The players were sitting ducks and Sky and others should never have allowed that to happen. Utilising the governing bodies Anti-Racism policies was the way to go. T-shirts saying no to racism and a banner with the same where all players mixed in and stood behind it would have been great! Back to the start here but if you want to change mindsets, help people be more empathetic about situations, the best way is through exchange of information in a pleasant way. Don't call people racist (Even if you think it) and provide information that helps the cement that holds their thoughts together to crack. If you want to see poetry in motion in respect of this, I suggest typing Daryl Davis infiltrates the KKK into a search engine and watch the video! He's changed white supremacists thinking this way. Great watch if you've not seen it https://youtu.be/waVrJEIfahc'"

Quote ="Mick Amos 9 WTW"What the BLM Movement fails to understand and indeed many who support their ideologies or sympathise with them is you never change mindsets through browbeating, intimidation or labelling people. Their founders are self declared Marxists. It's questionable their motives. Black Lives Matter but some are saying All Lives matter. Some and I mean some then say the illegal immigrants boats should sink when coming to the UK. Clearly all lives dont matter then! Others say All Lives matter in frustration. Again a debate could be had around this but calling someone racist isn't the right way to go. The argument is that All lives aren't at risk as much as Black Lives. I fully understand this but the Black Lives that are at risk the most are children dying of starvation and disease in African countries. Indeed slavery still exists including many forms for black people. I havent seen these issues mentioned and you could argue it is because that doesn't help the politics of the movement. Only Black people killed by police Officers seem to get the attention. I've absolutely no doubt the Police could perform better and that their performance, misconduct and manslaughter/murder needs high quality independent analysis. However they do get uneccessarry stick from people actively trying to catch them out in anyway they can. They protect and serve us and whilst we can ask for reform we must respect how well they do in many situations. Wakefield displayed absolute courage doing what they did knowing some fans and the media would want to catch them out. I was proud of everyone because I know we aren't a racist team or club. Of course some people with racist agendas will tag on the back of it. But that doesn't mean it's wrong. If someone puts out a tweet or such like against child Grooming, you can't stop EDL supporters retweeting it. Doesn't make it wrong. The players were sitting ducks and Sky and others should never have allowed that to happen. Utilising the governing bodies Anti-Racism policies was the way to go. T-shirts saying no to racism and a banner with the same where all players mixed in and stood behind it would have been great! Back to the start here but if you want to change mindsets, help people be more empathetic about situations, the best way is through exchange of information in a pleasant way. Don't call people racist (Even if you think it) and provide information that helps the cement that holds their thoughts together to crack. If you want to see poetry in motion in respect of this, I suggest typing Daryl Davis infiltrates the KKK into a search engine and watch the video! He's changed white supremacists thinking this way. Great watch if you've not seen it https://youtu.be/waVrJEIfahc'"

Don't come on here speaking sense and logic, there's no place on an Internet forum for such reasoning



Great post BTW if only those with single figure IQ's could read and understand it

Long post but you put the **** talking point in the first line, thanks for that, saves anyone reading any more.

exactly, and what a brilliant post mick has posted just about says it all until the the world stands back and takes a good hard look at them selves this issue it will never be resolved

It's "the knee" that's the whole point. A player with strong religious beliefs felt that he should only kneel before God. That is the reason for Falou staying on his feet. He got flak for it. The club decided to stand united against racism rather than expose one player to online flak for his religious beliefs. I applaud that. A statement pre-game might have helped, but we don't know how soon before kick-off the final decision was made.

But asking a player to "take a knee" for a quiet life is hardly respectful of his religious beliefs.

The team did the right thing for the right reason, and that is where it ends.

I agree with all of your post, although I do think extreme groups serve a purpose by forcing a rethink. Take for example Extinction Rebellion, who probably recruit from the sources as the UK version of BLM. They do refocus the eyes and conversations on the issues they complain about, and we usually end up in a slightly better place, just not as far as the position they demand. Without the extremist protests, there'd be no reboot of thinking and we'd make no progress.

For me, that is their purpose, and it's a useful one. Acknowledge that they adopt an extreme position, but there is usually a good place somewhere between where we currently are and where they demand we should be.

Notable context;

1, In the US, more white people are killed by the police every year, than black people.

2, There are more people in slavery today (actual, real slaves), than at any point in history.

3, In the US, police forces are locally funded, trained, operated - they don't (all) have the same standards we see in our police everyday. It's a crazy country.

I do understand what you say Slugger. I hope it does in some way. I'd especially like children in Africa to become a focus somehow and in someway. Because the truth is 99.9% on here or on my twitter including the 5 people on my twitter who unfollowed me don't care either. We are numb too it. I remember seeing adverts of starving children years ago and was horrified. Now Im not fussed that's the truth less I'd donate wouldn't I? . I've a house, car, phone and all the modern day luxuries most of us in the West have. People spill more food on the floor than children have in a week. I'm not sure what the answer is tbh. I know people help other causes and are good people so Im.not saying we aren't. It's just so sad.
As far as BLM goes I hope they seize to exist and a cross party political group with other sensible members gets set up. Fair non political scrutiny of issues that BAME face and dedicated plans of improvement.

Quote ="Mick Amos 9 WTW"I do understand what you say Slugger. I hope it does in some way. I'd especially like children in Africa to become a focus somehow and in someway. Because the truth is 99.9% on here or on my twitter including the 5 people on my twitter who unfollowed me don't care either. We are numb too it. I remember seeing adverts of starving children years ago and was horrified. Now Im not fussed that's the truth less I'd donate wouldn't I? . I've a house, car, phone and all the modern day luxuries most of us in the West have. People spill more food on the floor than children have in a week. I'm not sure what the answer is tbh. I know people help other causes and are good people so Im.not saying we aren't. It's just so sad. As far as BLM goes I hope they seize to exist and a cross party political group with other sensible members gets set up. Fair non political scrutiny of issues that BAME face and dedicated plans of improvement.'" it more than sad it's horrific to think that donations could end up being directed into unscrupulous hands, I've seen in the past charities take large incomes which I find bazaar but it's where it ends up puts people off donating again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25273024

Quote ="Mick Amos 9 WTW"I do understand what you say Slugger. I hope it does in some way. I'd especially like children in Africa to become a focus somehow and in someway. Because the truth is 99.9% on here or on my twitter including the 5 people on my twitter who unfollowed me don't care either. We are numb too it. I remember seeing adverts of starving children years ago and was horrified. Now Im not fussed that's the truth less I'd donate wouldn't I? . I've a house, car, phone and all the modern day luxuries most of us in the West have. People spill more food on the floor than children have in a week. I'm not sure what the answer is tbh. I know people help other causes and are good people so Im.not saying we aren't. It's just so sad. As far as BLM goes I hope they seize to exist and a cross party political group with other sensible members gets set up. Fair non political scrutiny of issues that BAME face and dedicated plans of improvement.'" it more than sad it's horrific to think that donations could end up being directed into unscrupulous hands, I've seen in the past charities take large incomes which I find bazaar but it's where it ends up puts people off donating again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25273024

Quote ="snowie"it more than sad it's horrific to think that donations could end up being directed into unscrupulous hands, I've seen in the past charities take large incomes which I find bazaar but it's where it ends up puts people off donating again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25273024'" Agreed Snowie. Exploiting such situations is deplorable!!

Quote ="snowie"it more than sad it's horrific to think that donations could end up being directed into unscrupulous hands, I've seen in the past charities take large incomes which I find bazaar but it's where it ends up puts people off donating again. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25273024'" Agreed Snowie. Exploiting such situations is deplorable!!

I wasnt talking about attracting attention on TV my point was that they wont take the knee when spectators are back in the grounds.
The reason is they will be booed and jeered
Thats the hypocrisy

Notable context:

There are more white people than black people in America, but black people are 4 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than white people per 100,000 people (2.4 vs 0.6/100,000)

Why don't you count the amount of bullets in america then divide that by the amount of idiots that own guns in america subtract the law in forcement you might get another answer

Do you really think they would be booed and jeered in front of a live crowd? I don't, and they certainly wouldn't by me.
Once again., I applaud them for why they din't take the knee.for the reasons they have stated.

Has happened in the US where crowds have just been reintroduced in MLS. It's still a bit more directly associated with the National Anthem over there though.

I have yet to come across a single Wakefield fan, face to face in the street, who think our guys should be bending the knee. Similarly with work colleagues when discussing sport in general. I think it's referred to as the silent majority.

[url=https://twitter.com/TheRightMelissa/status/1293936944087543811Well,if the sheep in this country that cannot think for themselves follow the example set in the USA - Off You Go[/url

Who’ keeps fanning the flames ie it this author or someone within the game

AARON BOWER 16/08/2020
Wakefield Trinity owner Michael Carter has categorically refuted allegations of racism following his players’ well-publicised decision to collectively not take a knee, insisting they did so to support a team-mate whose religious beliefs prohibited him from making the stance.

While the majority of Wigan’s team knelt in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, Trinity’s players linked arms and stood side-by-side prior to their first game back after lockdown last weekend. It was a stance they repeated again on Saturday against Catalans Dragons.

That attracted criticism from some quarters, suggesting Trinity were actively anti-BLM and supporting racism – but Carter told League Express that could not be further from the truth.

He said: “I need to reiterate that this club is 100 per cent against any form of racism whatsoever. It is not tolerated at this club: we have banned fans for life for racist chanting. There is a zero-tolerance approach here and not once in my seven years here have I had a player come to me complaining of racism.

“We’ve got a player who is adamant that his religion doesn’t allow him to kneel for anyone but God. I didn’t feel that was open to question, I took it on face value. You could see during the week he wasn’t himself and I spoke to him privately and he had major concerns about the reaction that Israel Folau had received, to the point where he was actively thinking about standing down.

“I spoke with the senior group and said whatever this player did, I would support him 100 per cent. If that meant standing with him personally, I would do that. The players then came up with the idea of showing unity, linking arms and standing shoulder-to-shoulder, so none of them were put in the spotlight of being the only one who didn’t.”

Carter continued: “We released a statement pre-game showing that we endorse the BLM message and were totally against any form of racism and all for equality. I don’t think that message could have been any clearer before the game. There were eight non-white British players in our line-up who stood shoulder-to-shoulder against racism. How anyone can conceive that as condoning racist views is beyond me.”

Carter insisted the reaction he had received from some people in the Rugby Football League was encouraging, but he complained of a lack of support from other areas.

He said: “I can’t stop what people think who are looking in from the outside. If they don’t see the message we were sending, then I can’t resolve that. It’s been tough and disappointing, the reaction we’ve had from certain people. The lack of support from certain quarters has been disappointing too.

“But I can’t speak highly enough of Carl Hall and Steve McCormack from the RFL. They agreed with everything we’d done. We’ve had a chat with Alex Simmons too, who led a diversity talk with the players last week and agreed the stance we took was a stand against racism.

“Some people have got an agenda with racism and want to use that agenda to cause havoc. Education must never stop on this issue. We will back any campaign that comes off the back of this and will support it until racism in Rugby League is eradicated.

“Would people prefer us to ostracise one player and leave him to his own devices because of his religious beliefs? I could have told those who wanted to, to take the knee and left one lad out on his own, but that isn’t our stance. We took a brave decision and a brave option and we shouldn’t castigated because of it.

“I’m not embarrassed to say that there were a few tears last week talking to a few people. I think I’m mentally strong, but I struggled with being accused of racism and Wakefield Trinity being labelled a racist club. That is categorically untrue.”

Trinity were supported in their stance last week by one of their most longstanding supporters, the former Wakefield MP David Hinchliffe.

“As a supporter of the club for more than sixty years and a life-long anti-racist, I feel Wakefield Trinity were absolutely right to leave it to their players to determine their actions on Sunday and let players like Reece Lyne – from a BAME background – explain their stance,” said Hinchliffe.

“The statement issued by Trinity before Sunday’s match made totally clear the club’s strong opposition to racism.

“Rugby League has the finest record of any British sport for inclusivity and, as a consequence, I felt deeply uncomfortable watching what were clearly contrived scenes for the broadcasters ahead of the match on Sunday and the previous ones. Black Lives Matter is a fundamentally important movement which has drawn long-overdue attention to appalling injustices. Its aims should be strongly supported, but that support should be genuine, spontaneous, and not what appeared to me almost as tokenism organised for the cameras.

“I appreciate that my support for Wakefield Trinity at this time will result in accusations of racism. Perhaps those doing so might reflect on the fact that my own campaigning for equality in the past, as Wakefield’s MP, led to my being subject to death threats on several occasions and I, my wife and children having, as a consequence, to live with emergency alarms in our Wakefield home linked to the local police station. There are clearly differing views on this matter which, I hope, can be discussed in a reasonable and amicable manner.”