Everyone else thinks they are, so why be different

Try it, its easy, you pick some players and play them, you don't flog them a man short.

I can't help but think that last night was two points lost, and we have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, it was an entertaining game and the difference in class between us and Leeds is definitely getting smaller.

Here's my take on it. Lyne was 18th man in case coliss wasn't right, as it happens he was ok but kirmo unexpectedly pulled out. Ali to start 18th man to bench. Lyne couldn't have covered in the pack and I thought our centres did a pretty good job all in all. Why being on Lyne in one of the hardest positions to play just for the sake of it? Perhaps in hindsight annakin or wildie would have been a better 18th man choice but we don't know how the players have been pulling up in training all week.

That's far too sensible and logical

Always dangerous to generalise. I don't think anything of the sort. Personally, I didn't think Thaler got an awful lot wrong from my viewing position. We are clearly not the best side around though we have improved, though not by as much as we should have and that, in my view, is Agar's fault. Last night's defeat was in no small part to his inclusion of Lynne on the bench and then his non involvement, not that he was ever going to be involved unless Collis or another 3/4 got injured. We are about where we deserve to be but the cheers that came from the Leeds fans show the degree of respect the team has now.

Well they are very slow to learn...so frustrating. I really admired our guts last night. Some great plays, great intensity and some really rousing stuf...but alas, yet another match thown away, all the good stuff wasted by stupid, stupid things. Fewer than we've become accustomed to, I'll grant you, but they still lost us the match, along with Agar's brainless decision to include Lynne. His obsession with that boy infuriates me. I'd pack his bags and escort him to the coach dole office on those gounds alone if I had my way!

You'll get little change on here out of being sensible and logical - the doom and gloom has taken hold to such an extent, that people would rather believe that Agar deliberately threw away 2 vital points and a play-off place, as opposed to the situation you've described above.

Amusingly, if he had sent Lynn onto the pitch, he'd be getting slated on here for that; I just hope that when his contract comes to an end, the experts on here have their CV's ready - this forum must have the highest concentration of qualified SL coaches in the country - the future is bright!

Who would you bring in as the next coach?

At times for a clever lad you are so lame.
Nobody surely suggests Agar picked a bench to lose the game, but its not hard to follow that picking a limiting bench may well have contributed to a loss.
We were playing the champions surely its logical to assume the more factors we had in our favour is a plus?

But the thing is Lyne wasn't down to be on the bench. Injury to kirmo when perhaps it might have been expected more so to happen to deano dictated Lyne HAD to move up to sub as he was 18th man. As stated in my previous post maybe Collis struggled a little early on in the week but declared himself fit, perhaps agar wasn't so sure he'd make it so named Lyne in the squad (who I thought did ok at headingley last week). On another note I thought ALL our props were outstanding last night, Raleigh certainly back up to form of old and showed why he earned a new deal. Wilkes playing the best rugby I've ever seen him play too

Not so lame that I can't understand the above, nor see past my nose-end in a desperate bid to play the blame game.

We do seem to have a few who look to blame Agar/The club and a few who look to defend everything.

Seems to me both could be seen to be at fault, maybe if one set opened their eyes a bit and the other closed them a bit it would be just dandy



Untill then fill yer boots.

Agree, It's how I see the situation, for what it's worth.

Also agree wit you're point about our Props, Amor & Poore,especially were excellent and like you said Raleigh was back to something like his old self & also Wilkes put in superb shifts.

For what my opinion is worth, Agar cocked up.
How that effected the result is anyone's guess.
Picking a three man bench was ludicrous when TTs impact was clearly limited to very short spells.
Wouldn't a spare half back, cowling or walshaw have been more sensible replacements?
Picking a player that was unlikely to get any time on the field (and would be a huge negative) when bringing back so many players was just lunacy?
I'm no Agar beater, I am presently loving the one point between FCs cast off and their new NRL super coach's efforts; I just hope we can pip them for eighth.
I just think it was a blunder.

Difficult decision for Agar regarding the substitutes especially with Kirmo pulling out late, but that is what he is paid for. Having Wildie on the bench gives fewer options than having Reece L there. RL is a 'safety net' for Collis, he can also cover for any of the 3/4's and also if Washbrook has to move from stand off for any reason then Lee Smith could move up and be covered by RL. Wildie can't be used for centre/wing cover. Also Agar seems to be dammed if he does etc, it does seem strange not using a sub, but why change when he didn't need to (the forwards seemed to cope with the additional workload) and he would have been lambasted on here for playing RL, however well he played. Why not criticise the decision to play TT when he knew he couldn't last a full shift.
It seems that whatever Agar does (I'm not fully supportive of everything he does, but he's the man paid to do it) and however well Reece L plays, there are some with their not so hidden agenda to have a pop.

Matty to 6 and Washy to second row if Kirmo is the problem.

Matty to 6 and Washy to second row with Mariano to centre if Collis is the problem.

Like you say he's on a hiding to nothing but thats what he gets paid for.

Reece Lyne i've been critical of Agars selection of him not Reece himself, he's young and could still develope, sadly i think Agars caused more harm than good from the fans point of view. i do wonder how all this affects Matty when he's overlooked in this way.

Mr T had a shocker on friday but he's the new messiah

I agree with what you say, but Mario in the centre against their speed in the 3/4's ? and with Kirmo missing to cover across then I'm not so sure about.

Just to throw another one into the mix, when was the last time Annakin played a game of rl, I know he needed a 'rest'.

I agree its not ideal but its better than 16 players imo.

Annakin, well who knows whats happening with him.

Shocker is a bit strong, but he didn't cover himself in glory; conversely, the bloke looked like a real handful on his debut, so I'm prepared to reserve judgement until he gets a few games under his belt.

He could have put Lyne on the wing and switched Cockayne to acting half, leaving Aiton to either be spelled or cover the back rowers. To leave him sat there for 80 min, especially with TT not match fit is ridiculous.

Really Al, the new messiah? haven't seen any of that. I'll admit I've been looking forward to him playing again after his impressive debut but after been injured for a few weeks and it's only his 2nd game anyway, it's hardly a surprise he wasn't as impressive as his debut. Wouldn't say he had a shocker either but each to their own.

Superb? Hardly.
Some guys ran their blood to water, some just played dumb. 1 or 2 stood out, in a tight game you play the basics, 6 tackles & kick. We don't do the basics right.

If you consider a forward pass a knock on and a penalty given away in a ten minute spell not a shocker then fair enough, in that spell he lost us all the momentum we had built.

He needs to learn not to wang the ball in every tackle.

Not knocking him, my comment was a little tongue in cheek, due to few posters bulling him up too early.

Hope he goes well with a few games under is belt

I think that's the issue - he most certainly has an offload game, but there's a time and a place; even Big Ali gets it wrong sometimes, but he's earned a decent amount of latitude due to his overall value to the team. Mr T needs to do a bit less of that and bit more of that moment in his debut, when he put Chase on his backside.