Ben is playing for Sale RU,in the second team I believe.I think he was going back to working in the medical side.

I certainly do, also in a way to bring back 2 or 3 of the injured over 21's to match fitness rather than dual reg.

Kyle Bibb I think it was, ran 90 meters to drop it over the line in a challenge cup match if I recall

Personally, as long as the deal is a good one for all parties, I prefer the dual reg.
It's got a bad rep because of the teams playing injured players on a one off to bring them back through but the standard of player in the lower league is better in my opinion that at U19 or U21.
The difficulty of the transition to me is playing against more physically developed players, and you are not given that in an under 21s set up.
Because the player pool is not massive in rugby league you get the best kids playing super league already (a la Tomkins). You are not playing against the best U21s you are playing against those not ready for Super league yet possibly even 16/17. An average U19 could look good there when they will still struggle on the step up.
Whereas you get players that are either bigger but not quite as good, or more skillful but less fit because of part time setup in the lower leagues
Let's take whoever the next young centre is at Wakefield as an example. Assuming he is not quite ready yet and taking his first steps he would be playing against either younger players on their way up or 20/21 players not seen as good enough for even Wakefield/Cas/Salford etc. If he plays for Dewsbury he lines up against Menzie Yari or Jessie Joe Parker or even Danny Cowling who know their way about and will test them both physically and technically compared to the other kids learning their trade, without having the pressure of being the weakest link in the team.

It has to be done right to make it work.
Season long loans are better for all parties if you ask me, but it gets difficult when you have an injury crisis and would like them back.
It clearly works better when you have a big enough squad to keep some back. We don't have that I guess.
It would work best if we really did have a feeder club system but to change from what we have now to that is near impossible.

Thank you! I could not remember his name.
Looked like he had it for a while but didn't kick on.

Yeah I see what you mean.

The flip side to this of courseis that, I know from Hunslet's assistant coach, when one week Paul McShane was going to Hunslet last year.

The Hunslet coaching staff found out on the Friday night, with the game being on Sunday, and McShane was unavailable to train with the Hunslet squad on the Saturday.

If we are going to P&R then this is a dynamic that is absolutely horrific for our semi-pro teams.

Obviously all the training the team had done that week had been rendered pointless.

I think a possible solution would be dual-reg'ing each player for a 2 or 4 week period so that the feeder club and player can get the best out of the deal.

It has to be far betetr structured. Otherwise they may as well be turning up for a kick about in the park

Bibb never looked like he had it no heart what so ever ,

dont come on here much now but managed to click on and view this thred so il throw a few things into the mix aswell.

as most of you know myself along with my good friend tony drury coached the title winning side a few years back now. that side was put together on a shoe string budget and built in a period over 18 months. lads were picked up from the under 17s who had been over looked by other clubs and mixed with lads on contracts and some youngsters. over a period of time we looked at individual players and the team aswell and decided to go off a lot what kear coached the first team and play and train our way. sessions were designed to bring skill levels up to scratch and to be game related. the title winning team was so well drilled it just flowed. we had a set of lads who trusted us with their lives and who would run through a brick wall if we asked them to do it they were tough and hard and all knew if their standards dropped they would be dropped. we got everything out of them and that year players who are now in top sl teams were demolished by our lads. were these lads ready for sl the following season, some of them maybe but they were better than the lads we signed from other clubs systems and they were our own. personally i dont think kear knew what to do with them. for me when you hit a level you need to kick again, no point playing reserves. get them to a club on loan but a club where they will get looked after behind good forwards.

just a point on identifying players, when looking at young players most develop at different rates of growth. body shape and size is important. look at lenghth of leg from ankle to knee thatl give a good indication on growth but the main thing for me in spotting players is leg speed and this applies to any position. no speed in legs and youve had it im affraid. il refer to ben gledhill great kid to talk to and coach but this was his downfall at top level leg speed.

when i moved onto the scouting team at wigan bout 3 years back. the youth system at wigan was no where near where it was, maurice lyndsay had let it go a bit. ian lenigan said he wanted to win the grand final in 5 years with lads who had come through the club. every detail was looked at and systems and scouts put in place in yorks cumbria lancs and the scouts also covered all games in differents codes at all ages. the system there now is second to none it can be done.

when bringing a youngster to wakefield they should be told that theres no guarentee that they will play sl and if they dont will leave our club a better player than when they arrived. every game and every session need to be taped and gone over. mistakes are made its learning but not over and over again. individual programs put in place for body size, weight and shape and finally lads should not be signed and just said to here you go do it work with them nurture them. talk to them, scream at them sometimes, you are after a reaction out of them saying right il show them.

to any young player or parent of a young player reading this most people in sport are in it for themselves so trust no one but yourself and go do it yourself and you wont go far wrong.

Great post Mopsey. Thanks for the insight

re 21s/dual reg.
I think a good solution would be to have combined area 21s playing in the lower league. i.e. 3 SL teams combine, say Leeds, Wakefield and Cas, each provide a minimum of 6/7 players each week and share the costs.
Play in the championship/C1 with promotion relegation between the 2, but with no promotion/play-off place into SL . 12 Northern based teams would provide 4 extra teams for the championships.
In this way they would be proper feeder teams and not undermine existing clubs.

Seems to me that Mopsey really highlighted the true problem in that Leeds,Wigan etc are scouting far and wide and taking on board most of the top potential talent.

Scouting isn't the issue though clearly is an important step, it's having something that they would want to come for.

As a parent, would you send your kid to Wakefield if there was a possibility of him going to Leeds?
And more importantly, if Leeds didn't want, where would we be with Bradford, Cas etc. Better than us?

That feels like a problem, until you're involved with one of these lads who has potential; if Wigan and Wakey come knocking, can you in good faith steer him to Wakey, or do you look at his career opportunities and admit that Wigan is a better prospect?

The only way to address it is for Wakefield to have the same opportunities; better facilities, financial probity, excellent coaching & conditioning, a good youth policy where progression to 1st team is realistic and a quality on-field product that means a player has a likelihood of actually winning something. We've a long way to go, but the groundwork appears to be being done.

and you said it with a straight face!

Great post. One of the best I have read on here in a long time.

If you look back, I posted yesterday mate

You after tickets??

Sometimes it's your lad that chooses to play for Wakey before Wigan,Leeds even Cas,not the parents.

With all due respect I hope in 2yrs time you and your lad feel the same

This thread is a great read in particular mopsies post which was a great insight into what really goes on. Has a parent of a child who is testing the water on the elite programmes at both Wakefield and Castleford it's quite apparent that both clubs work very hard at making sure they get the best local juniors onto there schemes.

I do feel its upto clubs to sell themselves when trying to sign juniors but it is also down to parents to see through the false promises that can be made to lads at 15/16 years old. To me a lot of what happens comes down to personal choice of what's best for them and it might come down to something quite has simple has transport.

One thing for sure is clubs like ours must invest in youth to have any hope in hell of improving in the long term but its also a fact that most players don't make it.again it can be just luck!!!

If they are good enough then there will ,I'm sure,be decisions to be made,but when they are very happy with the coaches at where they are at the moment at 16,that is the main thing.Wearing a track suit with a big club badge on is one thing,playing for that club is another.We will just have to wait and see,I hope he proves all the doubters wrong and goes on,where ever he ends up,saying it was the commitment and understanding of the Wakey youth program .

not sure if I can post this but, this may be of interest to people on this thread



I'm sure you can't Dave.

El Rey.

As another perspective, I'm 20 years of age and only stopped playing in the last couple of years, playing in wakefield I saw a lot of the young players that would be coming through now as the exciting talent, I started playing at 13
There were 3 lads on my team at the Wakey scholarship and 1 at Cas, when we got to 16 Wakey dropped the one lad who IMO was the best most creative of the three, he had s bit of spark whereas the lads that were kept on we're big strong lads but unfortunately didn't really have much 'rugby league' intelligence
Getting to a few Wakefield Cuo finals I saw some of the best young lads and for some reason or another the lads who I consider the best (the ones you were worried about facing) weren't at Wakey
Since then the two lads they kept on: one was dropped and is now playing at Sharlston and the other (who was mysteriously dropped and then re-signed when his older brother Kyle signed for the first team) is still there I think

So, does anyone know how the system will work when there are only 10 academies?

I'd be surprised if the RFL knew. Long term planning is not their thing.