Incredible but then it was Macca who picked him, probably saw a lot of himself in the lad - mediocre!

Not sure about Graham, yeah he's been a prima donna of late but he was OK a season back. Think you will have your answer on him 6 weeks into next seasons NRL!

Paul Sykes is a great shout. I don't think I have ever seen him do anything well.

Were his form struggling then I would agree and yes I am very much an internationalist. England have no decent fullbacks either. You ask any coach what the key positions in a team are they will always identify the hooker, 13, halves and fullback. Its actually a question on the RFL coaching courses believe it or not.

Now whilst you say he is being ruined which I see no evidence of at all, did Brisbane ruin Lockyer by using him as a fullback when they are a natural half or for that matter Karmichale Hunt. The positions are interchangeable. Do i think Tomkins will return to the 6 slot, in time yes, but he is learning just fine at the moment and there are some very good halves coming through at the moment.

Widdop will make an excellent partner for Brough, and whilst Tomkins sports the 1 shirt he regularly runs the show in and around the rucks as a traditional half would.

Looking long term Matty Russell and Joe Mellor look set to make an impact next year, an outside back and half respectively.

Sam does not play as a traditional 1 in the same way as the fullback is used at Trinity and personally I do not think he is being ruined at all.

You could also say Wigan are ruining his brother by moving him to the centre, a move I did not like at first, but when was the last time we had a big strong pacey centre with great hands for England? Probably not since Newlove.

Experimenting with players excited me to be honest and can bring out new dimensions to their game.

Awful player.

Graham is a machine, rarely misses a tackle, 80 minute Prop with a low error count and tops the meters in a season year after year. With great hands close to the defensive line?

What more do you want from a Prop?!

meh probably a bit harsh in retrospect, i dont see loads of him i suppose but he just seems to fall to the first tackle alot. Also what i have seen of O Meley lately seems distinctly average.

Stick by Ryan Hall though and his namesake Atkins.

I'd also put half of the Bradford team in there with Sykes tbh.

Lee Smith truly ordinary player with attitude

England is painfully devoid of any what I would even consider close to International class outside backs, and in that I include Michael Shenton, another I really do not get.

Stunning to think not too long ago there was a major debate of who between Lee Smith and Greg Inglis was the top junior player and would go on to be a top class senior when they came up against each other at Academy International level.

While I`m thinking about it, Matt Seers, state of origin player who apart from thumping Ryan Hudson did nothing for us

What about that big bloke with the bald head that plays for Leeds

Never cut it Internationally. Not saying Joel will either by the way, but he has a chance.

Because he can draw the man and run decent lines it appears. I agree though, these are just basics which shows how bad we are in this position.

Not sure I agree. I think he's done OK. At the end of the day the Aussie backs will always look far better because their forwards and halves have already won the battle. They got chances served on a plate whilst the likes of Senior had to fashion their own chances or feed off crumbs.

You always got the feeling that given space Senior would have scored plenty. With our current centre and wingers you fear they may not even know which direction the try line is.

Cummins made a career out of simply following Harris or Holroyd round the park. Whenever either of the two made a break (which in Harris's case was quite often) all they had to do was look to their left as the full back approached and there was Francis again, ready to collect and walk in another try.

Seem to remember watching him kick 14(?) goals in 1 match a few years back

GRaham and Hall now this is getting daft.

Now this is getting daft.

for me the one i always think was over rated was denis betts, played in one of the best rugby sides ever, did sod all for england and got hugely found out in the nrl.

and weirdly martin offiah, i think id have got 30 tries a season outside darren wright and gene miles and from his website....

had great hands and an eye for a try, often making interceptions then racing the length of the field to score. I received criticism over my defensive game, but such was the dominance of the Wigan during this period, that I was rarely required to defend.

when he went london he was pants and.... david jones had him for toast at bv!

Never really got Sonny Nickle myself.

Eh?

I think Hall is outstanding, power, pace, elusiveness & always in the right bloody place. Good looks to boot. Reminds me of Darren Albert and the posibility that he could play in the forwards at the back end of his career.

Yes I would take Dave Jones any day over chariots famous for one tackle on chariots against Widnes and nothing else.

betts did not struggle in the Nrl Andy Platt did at first but both got rave reviews. Read the iceman by John Monie good section on how they went in the ARL.

Martin offiah is without doubt the finest winger I have seen in my memory which is from about 1985. Yes he had his flaws nut he more than made up for them with other aspects of his game.

I cannot think of 1 Australian international centre that does not or did not have the ability to create something out of nothing. Senior at that level is as 1 dimensional as it gets.

some very good players on here got a mention for no reason