Have to agree...it's not the same without P+R....perhaps we could have a poll to see how many of us on here are in favour of it coming back ?? (Not that the RFL will listen to us fans



)

Anyone fancy starting a thread ??

Don't think it warrants a poll on this forum - the answer most people will give is that a return to P&R would be healthy for the sport, and far more enjoyable as a spectator - whatever the outcome might be.

I still say that P& should return, even allowing for ring-fencing the sacred cows and allowing only heartland clubs to be relegated - but that any promoted club should also be given 1 years safety net - i.e. relegation only an option from year 2 onwards. The sacred cows would have to be scutinised on seperate criteria - in case they are just making up the numbers - and if one should fail, the side due for relegation should be reprieved! Not perfect - but then what is!

Would that be the expansion club at Wrexham who finished above us in the league last year and beat us at home? The same expansion club who assembled just about a full squad good enough to win 3 more games than us within a few weeks of the season starting?

Or was it the expansion club from South France, the side that got to within 7 points of the Grand Final 2 years ago (after beating us at BV), the same season they got to the Challenge Cup Final? The expansion side with no fans who averaged well over 3,000 more than us 2 years ago and well over 1,000 more than us last year?

Or perhaps it was the expansion club from London who's squad has only 5 overseas players (compared to our 9)? The expansion club that recent England Internationals Tony Clubb, Chris Melling Rob Purdham & LMS played for (at the time of playing for England obviously)?

There are plenty of decent arguments against franchising but no fans, crap performance and contribution to competition of the expansion clubs are deffinately NOT 3 of them.

Let's not be too quick to compare last years performances because as we now know there were extenuating circumstances which lead to our drastic fall in performances and results in the second half of the season.

Had we continued the way we started we would have comfortably made the play offs as we did the year before.

And flopped out to an expansion team infront of a poor crowd, if memory serves.

It's nowt to do with the RFL and whilst they won't do us any favours can we really blame them?

Forgive me if this has been posted elsewhere, but I think an awful lot of people are missing a huge point about the franchising system.
I agree it was brought in to safeguard the future of the so called expansion clubs, but whether by skill of the RFL or simple good fortune it also prevents something else from happening. Anyone guessed it yet??

Look at the timing of the whole franchise system. Promotion and relegation meant that anyone could be relegated, however it was always the same teams struggling over and over. That was until Wigan had an absolute stinker and came within a whisker of being relegated. Without employing the tactics which they did, Wigan; in my opinion, would have been relegated. The consequences of this would have been massive for the RFL. The loss of income as well as the prestige of a club that size going down could have been catastrophic for the RFL. The only way to make sure a "big" club could never be relegated again was to bring in franchising and keep the smaller clubs fighting for the scraps from the table. The RFL, along with our own respective BoD's took the bait and in the process sold the game down the river with franchising. It hasn't been the same since and it never will until we rid ourselves of this artificial abomination.

What is the average home attendance of the Crusaders and Harlequins?

Your correct it was the team from Wrexham that finished above us with a team assembled full of Aussies with far more than any other team was allowed just before the season started, the same team that 3 competant super league coaches on their rosta and the same team who had to send players back midway through a season for not having correct permits the one before. Level playing field would be nice!

The Catalan have done well since they came in i agree, but the fact they were allowed to stay in for three years at the start was just a joke, what other sport would do that?

And as for Tony Clubb, Chris Melling and Rob Purdham hardly International class are they Tommy?

While the RFL continue to support these clubs, teams like us have no chance.

Well if you don't consider Rob Purdham International class, or indeed Tony Club potentially international class then we have very differing opinions and I would say your judgement is in question. Chris Melling I will give you though!



The point is, both London and Catalan offer 'more' than we do to the sport in general in my opinion. Regardless of wether you agree or not exposure in London is the only way the game will ever become more than a minority sport played in pit towns in the North of England, so without them in the league the overall attractiveness of the competition is less therefore the TV rights will be less as the advertising exposure is probably less, therefore less money for the clubs. Catalan are a success whatever way you look at it, yes they have a few extra imports but there crowds and onfield success are proof of this.

The only borderline one is Celtic, and if indeed the RFL have screwed us over with the payment plan with HMRC when they went into administration then that does stink, but at the moment there is no proof of this. They are a brand new team that have had financial problems and other off field issues due to their mismanagement recently, sound farmiliar?

Regardless of if its fair or not we have had more than enough time to get our house in order and only ourselfes to blame for our poor crowds, financial problems, terrible import record, poor ground etc....

With a head start of 107 years of Harlequins and 120+ on Crusaders, I'd hope ours were massively higher than them both?



Compared to number of England internationals filling our ranks?

Tommy is right, we need to get our own house in order, and we have needed to do that for the last couple of decades.

Franchising aside, which i clearly do not agree with, i believe there is a mass of Wakey fans for one reason or another dont attend. This was proved by the attendance at the relegation match a few years back. I would like to think that a shiny new stadium would bring them all back and give us the revenues we need to enable our beloved team to be competitive!

If we do indeed play out of Oakwell next year the club need to come up with some very creative offers to enable the team to be well supported over there! The stadium is decent, folk will have a good view, kids will be able to see, nice facilities, only problem is travel and the cost associated with that. Maybe this is an area for the club to look at. Run coaches for season ticket holders.

I am not aware of the cost of running Belle Vue, but i doubt the rent on Oakwell would exceed the cost of hosting it ourselves, maybe the saving if indeed there is one could be put to helping supporters with the extra cost of travel?

Exactly, we need to concentrate on the things that we can control to make us as an attractive proposition as possible. Bitching and moaning about the sputhern fairies, frogs or the Welsh does us no good at all.

You have a hard core of 2500-3000. you only have to look at your attendances against catalans, quins and crusdaers. Take Leeds, Cas, and Bradford away your attendance are that figure, you get no neutrals coming. Wigan Saints and Warrington bring a thousand or so.

Castleford fan base is twice that of wakefield, the population is about a tenth. Ask yourselves why that is. Castleford have a loyal fan base they are not fickle, they stand by the club through thick and thin, twice when they have been relagated from super league, they have averaged 5000 in the National league. Wakefield will be lucky to average 2500.

Why is that. I expect some interesting answers. There is no other major sport in Wakefield. Leeds is as near to castleford as Wakefield.

Wakefield home attendances 2010
CRUSADERS - 4671
QUINS - 4371
CATALANS - 5818
AVERAGE - 4953

Cas home attendances 2010
CRUSADERS - 5299
QUINS - 5862
CATALANS - 4209
AVERAGE - 5123

Are you still a Dewsbury fan? Or have you reverted to type?

Indeed - they need to be looking now at some creative schemes to get people there; for example, how many of us will be driving to Oakwell with empty seats in our cars? The club could engage with that and offer incentives for us to fill those seats with floating supporters - cheap tickets, group discounts, club shop vouchers or whatever they come up with. I'd also look to get the train people on board - do a matchday special, season long discounted train travel etc etc - the possibilities are endless.

For my part - I drive to matches in a 7 seater with at least 3-4 empty; if the Wildcat Dolls will come and dance in my living room at half time on Saturday, I'll offer those seats out to anyone who wants them for the duration of our time at Oakwell.

So the Cat isnt a Ram but a Tiger.

Quelle surprise.

Transparent, yet again!!

As ever half ar$ed!!
Your figures (that's cas, not dewsbury, strange!) as ever don't hold water.
Bitter, bitter, bitter.

Kinley how old are you, I guess you are probably still at school.
Why should I be bitter, I neither support Castleford or Wakefield, have alook how many post I have made on the cas site .... nil.
I know plenty of wakefield supporters, and you are clinging to the last bits of straw. Your attendances are very poor, your away support is weak.

You have to face the facts Kinley. you should be doing your homewrok revision for your GCSE's now.

Sorry but our away support over the years has been very good considering our comparative league position. Our attendances have gone up according to the stats.

You are talking crap

Then you must be a wakey fan, because with 13/16 posts on here it's your most popular site, equally no posts on rams site?
Our support is like many in SL, could do better.
You have to face facts, you are a crank!!
Now off you trot, I've got a lot of homework to do.

Edited for accuracy

like for example learning to spell homework!
your silly, from silly land, and have no place in the land of the educated witty articulate wakey fans, and mopsey, me and kinley!

So actual facts are no longer "accurate" and your guess work is?
However you want to manipulate the figures, the op was comparing attendences against scabbytw*ts outlandish and ill thought out statistics.
To get up to his double figures, your gonna have to add on a lot more than a thousand.

....and mopsey, kinley and I, you dummy, honestly!!!
Apologies in advance to bren2k for jumping in!!

this is what happens when you do kiddy meals for our guests, we get numptys!

sorry!
my diction is not all it could be, but it has been cold!