We lost by 2 pts to wigan and bt leeds last year

Fair points.
Although I disagree with what you said about Jordan Crowther.
His - although its not really his "faults" are down to him playing in a position that I'm sure we'd all agree - he isn't 100% suited too.
He needs to be playing in the back row or at loose forward.

Things need addressing before it’s too late, 8 from 42 is pretty unacceptable, I honestly fear for us, our only saviour could be the poor ness of Leigh and Hull kr. This bleeding needs to stop it can’t go on. I hope to god Chester sees sense and walks before he takes his home town club into oblivion

Hold on a f minute! Who's decision is that?! and to start him in both games? And he;s done this previously from memory when he's had 2 fit hookers.

Wigan are a well drilled side ,but at present we are reeping the panic buying of players by Mr Chester in the close season before last season started. We bought a 3rd choice hooker from Salford now first choice in ours , can tackle but brings nothing else to the team witch for a 9 is poor .Joe Westerman one of the better players last night ,but not the player of 3 or 4 year ago who is reaching the end of is career . Pitts a steady second row forward who as been ok without been great and as moved around a lot in is career reaching the end of is career .Like it or not the lone winger we have got from Huddersfield is better than Kay and Kershaw .Big Dave is still the only forward we have with any go forward in attack .Though Arona tried hard . On paper our three quarters look good and if given room would go well but Lynn and Bill have lost that extra yard of pace of a few year ago. J C and Batch have improved a lot , but should not be in the 17 every week but that's down to the position we are in .We are a team were age is catching up fast and we have two half playing behind a second best pack week in ,week out .I can see what the two new coaches have brought to the club the line defence was good in the first half,and we were ok going forward in the first half ,but think we are a team that are going to faid in the last half of a game because of age and players not been good enough

But the position he’s been picked at his hooker so I have to judge him as such - and in that position his faults are obvious to all including by your own admission your self.

Tbh in attack I think the lack of ability from both j wood and crowther is one of the main reasons we aren’t scoring. I won’t bother listing the others as they are obvious to all

I think our squad is capable of competing with and beating Hull KR and Leigh.

I don’t think our squad goes into a game as favourites against any others.

So 12 teams in SL in my opinion we should beat 2 of them so actually I think we are slightly over achieving.

It’s all well and good saying this squad finished in the top 5 but that is a number of years ago now and it hasn’t really been freshened up or improved it’s just aged, whilst other teams have added quality...we have not.

We added Brough...who was poor, and now Lino who so far hasn’t hit the ground running. We badly needed some quality up front. I rate Crowther highly but he isn’t a 9. Wood is a grafting 9 but lacks the spark to ignite a game and Kyle Wood has his moments but again at 32/33 his best days are behind him.

Our Props are not SL standard with the exception of Fafita when he looks interested, which to be fair so far this year he does.

So with that being said I guess it comes down to our recruitment and retentions, knowing when to let players go and replacing them with a superior player.

We have failed to do that and that is why I don’t believe we have a squad capable on paper of finishing above 10th. If we do finish higher than 10th I think we will have over achieved. This was my opinion before a ball was kicked and that hasn’t changed.

The Hull KR game is massive. It’s already a must win. In reality I don’t expect us to win a game before that and again I thought the same prior to the season starts when I saw the fixtures.

I was shocked during the online sessions held prior to the kick off of the season Mr Carter saying we should be pushing for the top 5. I felt it was totally unrealistic and set fans expectations way too high. I appreciate he has to sell season tickets and I’m sick of saying this myself but I also think it is important to manage expectations.

That’s my thoughts on the situation. Who is responsible for the recruitment/retentions and how they are affected by our financial position is key to our success of failure.

What can we change short term to help? I think we played a cracking style against Leeds playing to our strengths. Last night Wigan’s game plan was to starve out flanks of ball by shooting wide. That worked. We couldn’t adapt to that counter tactic so we need a plan B. With the wide men shooting at us it opened holes in the secondrow channel and I can’t think once when we hit it.

Also out fitness and conditioning look way off the pace. That is a worry at this stage of the season but that can be sorted relatively quickly if the club wish to address it.

Like I said that’s just my opinion, it’s a very tough situation we find ourselves in. For me the key is survival this year and then freshening up the squad, and maybe coach too in the next offseason.

That's a fair assumption JonH second half it was like thoroughbreds versus donkeys. Fitness is far too low but I'm not sure we could get any fitter it seems some are already at there peak fitness which isn't good enough for super league first half we got into Wigans faces second half we let them come to us we just weren't fit enough to move up, Tackling got sloppy & they were just too fast for us. That last Bibby try we were all on the left hand side of the pitch trying to chase the ball so when Hardacker kicked the ball to the right there was no-one there that's 10 year old schoolboy stuff where was our line. Whats all our right side players doing there is that lack of coaching I don't know. But nothing will be done no matter how much we complain about it

he may have been picked, but he isn't a hooker though is he?

That’s a great analysis jonh, hats off mate. Do you not think that throwing a big lead against Leeds and going toe to toe with Wigan For 40 mins shows there is quality clearly in the squad but we play dumb rugby and our attacking line options are terrible. You pick up on fitness and conditioning being poor, again that falls down to back room staff.

I actually didn’t see much difference between Wigan’s first half and second half performance.

They probably should have been 3 or 4 tries up on the first half were it not for them bombing their chances. Individual errors cost then dear in the first half.

The second half they were much more clinical, the passes stuck and they wracked up the points.

Leeds we were absolutely mullered in the pack struggled to make yards and it was only really individual brilliance that kept us in it. I never felt comfortable even with the lead in that one.

We haven’t been blown off the park from the off and have had plenty of possession in each teams half to turn it into points second half performances are atrocious which I put a lot down to fitness and just an inability to compete at later stages. I totally agree that we are rely on individual brilliance to get points, I’ve stated that previously in another thread, which shows we have quality in the team. I never felt confident when we hit the lead in both games, again because our goal line attack is atrocious and last tackle options are terrible.

Not quite sure what your point is we both agree he isn’t a hooker and attacking wise giving him the ruck to run is a major contributory factor in our clueless attack. As a defensive second row I have no problem with him - he’s not the best at the club but he tries and makes plenty of tackles

There you are then.
Eureka!

Hmm do wonder if you actually read what I d said in the first place - so we are in agreement he’s a crap hooker and an average second row

The real problem for us is that, whilst not quite at full strength, we're not too far off and a couple of injuries, say to Westerman and Fifita would leave us literally unable to make any yards.
We do have some firepower in our backs but, unless we can get on top in the forwards, they will never get to show what they are capable of.
We desperately need some more go forward and a general in the middle of the park.
I hope that Lino had picked up an injury because he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half, nowhere near close to "running" the side.

For me we are already on bare bones and we look way, way behind a poor Leeds side and we got done 28 0 in the 2nd half by an understrength Wigan side, with 2 second rowers and 2 x 2nd choice wingers in their three quarters.

All the traits of the worst parts of last season, when we were ravaged by injuries and absentees.

We already look to be in a relegation battle with Leigh and KR

I think unless something is done with coaching personnel and some players we are looking at a battle to avoid the drop we are clueless on last plays and have been weak defensively on both sides for a number of years and its catching up with us we probably have some of our younger players who have had a few matches and not experienced a win what does that do with their confidence if like us they expect mediocraty than thats what they play with the momentum for our two top 5 recent finishes has well and truly gone and every year is a relegation battle already this year after 2 games we need a shake up

We knew our performances were at best rubbish for quite sometime. The thing not to do is bring in just one new player, it can work when you are StHelens but us no.

We really have to cut giving away silly penalties and coughing up possession. In addition we need to complete 6 plays, it's killing us game after game

Not just complete 6 plays but, have some plan for the last one !

I agree but why have a plan if you cannot complete to execute

We had a higher completion rate and more possession then Wigan in that first half. If Cas or Saints had similar they would’ve put Wigan to the sword.

Johnstone, Fifita, Arona, Tanginoa, Lyne, Tupou & Ashurst would all create a lot of interest from ‘bigger’ clubs should they be available. Miller would also be a better player in a dominant side alongside a decent halfback. Some of the younger guys like Jowitt Crowther & Batchelor would also be highly coveted. I’d also love to see Arundal get an injury free run as many have said he is probably our best all round centre. Much of the rest are kind of average Joes though but even so we should be getting much more out if them than we are. We ain’t a play off squad but we aren’t a 19% win/loss ratio team either.

A point to note though is of the eleven players listed above only Fifita & Tanginoa were signed by Chester, the rest were recruited by the previous coaching incumbents. Chester’s signings tend to be the average Joe’s. That is your problem right there.

on current form the only two who would get bigger clubs are tupou and TJ and both would be great for other clubs providing they can stop fit, tanginoa would also probably get a bigger club if he can discover last seasons form. Arona, fafita, ashurst, lyne who are all done great for the club Imo would only be used as a stop gap somewhere, with the exception of lyne who’s 29 their all the wrong side of 30 and their best years are behind them. The youngsters need to improve and continue to improve something I haven’t seen in any player in 2 1/2 years with players either stagnating or going backwards. Chester may of only signed two players but he’s resigned nearly all the other players. Also let’s look at his disastrous signings, gigot, brough, tangata, lino. The whole team as completely stagnated and if your not going forwards your only going one way. As for arudel he’s a good honest pro who can read the game but he’s like TJ he spends hell of a lot of time not on the field.

Whatever the disagreements about the squad surely no one can disagree with this?