Why would they announce it before all the points are gathered?

And it doesn't just affect the two in the GF. The final positions that affect all team points are calculated from the final positions in the playoffs.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to prove.

Someone asked when the date was for the announcement
I said I don't know but it can't be before the grand final
Luppy questioned that because Ellis said something different
RFL announce date is after grand final.
Ellis wasn't correct but now knows.

Giants knew. "Membership of the Betfred Super League in 2025 will be determined by the top 12 teams in the 2024 rankings, which will be announced at the culmination of the 2024 season." Published 25th Oct 2023 https://www.giantsrl.com/article/8626/r ... ng-results

Giants knew. "Membership of the Betfred Super League in 2025 will be determined by the top 12 teams in the 2024 rankings, which will be announced at the culmination of the 2024 season." Published 25th Oct 2023 https://www.giantsrl.com/article/8626/r ... ng-results

Warrington Guardian used the same wording so I assume given by an RFL release. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... -gradings/

Warrington Guardian used the same wording so I assume given by an RFL release. https://www.warringtonguardian.co.uk/sp ... -gradings/

I said it's logical to await the conclusion of the season.

However, the only 2 clubs it affects are the clubs in the GF - all other scores are done and dusted by then. Their scores can only be affected by +/- 0.1111

IMG had previously suggested scores "as early as possible", so I don't get this idea that Ellis was "wrong", and certainly not "cringey". Have I misunderstood what was meant by that?

The date was only announced this week. Clubs clearly had not been given this detail when Ellis did the March interview.

That's not the kind of thing he would get wrong.

As I've posted above, other clubs posted that they knew it was announced at the culmination of the season.
What I found cringe is that he said it means the playoffs don't matter.
He should have just said he didn't know and left it at that.
Again I'm not having a go at him. This is 1 in hundreds of things he's got right.
But to me, and it's only me, if you think the final scores are coming out before the playoffs, you didn't read the handbook properly.
If I get it wrong no one really cares. If he gets it wrong it matters a lot.

I didn't hear that he'd said that.

On the second point, the handbook makes no reference at all as to when scores will be revealed - none at all, so that point is nonsensical.

It says the Final league positions after grand final and the Grand Final bonus points are part of the calculation.

I can't explain it any better than that.

But again, I've found two clubs that announced it would be after season finishes back in October.

Still not sure why you are arguing a point that is already proved to be right.

For what it’s worth; Martin Jepson was interviewed on the COYF cast recently & was a little ambiguous regarding some IMG points/processes etc & I just put it down to him playing his cards close to his chest rather than being wrong or “not being all over it” & I’d say the same for Matt Ellis. It serves them no purpose to be wholly transparent & in some instances could be quite damaging.

All the details of this years omg are in this current weeks league express, final release of points issued KS circa 23rd to 26/27 th October !

From what i remember reading, the final scores by IMG will be totted up after the seasons finishes, including the championship play off final. IMG scores will then be checked by the RFL ,and then an independent audit of the scores by an outside auditor.
Hopefully,all three i.e. IMG,RFL and the independent audit will all agree on final points tally that will give a definitive score for each club without clubs having to appeal.
Anyway that's my take on it.

Another question to put on the table after today, what if London don't finish the bottom of SL? Does it have any bearing?

None. London could win the Grand final, and still have less of a grade than Batley

No. They'll never get enough points to get in, even if they win GF

This maybe a bit of a long post, but it may save others the time of trying to do the same thing. For the first time, I have dived into the detail of the IMG grading handbook, there are some assumptions here, but I have tried to get into a position to see where the increase in points will come in the next grading as opposed to our previous. I`m just going of information that is in the public domain. Apart from adding in an increase of 0.25 for owner investment, I have stayed away from finance and community categories as 1. There is very actual data to go off and 2. I`m not going to pretend to understand the criteria



Fandom Category
1. Our attendances last year averaged over 3k but not over 7.5k which remains the same (albeit probably a lot closer to the 7.5k!) – 2 Points.
2. Digital scoring: Right at this moment in time, we have a social following of 108k (48.6k twitter followers, 38k Facebook followers, 18.5k Instagram followers and 2.94k YouTube subscribers) – Which scores us 0.15 in the grading as opposed to 0.1 in the last grading – 0.05 of a point difference.

The engagements is difficult to get hold of, but if you take for instance YT videos in the last month alone have had 90,700 views, which were pretty much non existent prior to the previous grading. Facebook posts over the last three days have alone attracted 13,800 likes. Assuming last year our engagements where below 300k in total, which seems likely looking back and our engagement is over 700k for this period (which is being reserved). – 0.4 points as opposed to 0.2 points on the previous grading.

Website visits I really have no visibility of so for the purpose of the breakdown I have given this a score of over 15k visits for both years – 0.25 scored this grading and previous.

Viewership again I have no visibility of, but I assume is in the under 150k bracket, and as we are not on TV, we are unable to affect this score in any way – 0.75 scored this grading and previous.

Fandom – previous grading – 2.4/5
Projected for this grading – 2.65/5

Second Category – Performance
1. Regular season rankings – last grading based on a 23 (12th)/ 22 (10th) and 21 (10th) finish – 2.925. Assuming we finish top of the championship, this will drop to 2.82.
2. Bonus points – If we win the Championship GF, we get a 0.25 bonus point, if we win 1895 cup final, we get a 0.1 bonus point. – 0.35 points as opposed to 0 in the previous grading.

Performance – Previous grading – 2.925 / 5
Projected for this grading – 3.17 / 5

Finance
Mainly because I have no clue about a lot of the criteria, I will purposely be vague on this, but perhaps someone might be able to dive into the detail in reply to this post. What I will say is that we will be up from 0.25 to 0.5 based on owner investment and I am sure there are other areas in there whereby we could increase for the next grading.

Stadium
1. Stadium Facilities – So against the 9 criteria, apparently, we scored 0.5 / 1.5 which looking at the criteria and the state of the ground when they did the ratings, I`m not sure how we ever reached that. However, looking at the criteria against the stadium now, it looks like we will get the full 1.5 here (the only one I`m not 100% sure about is the media facilities) – 1.5 as opposed to 0.5 previous grading.

2. Stadium utilisation – Basically attendance against against capacity, although our attendances are up, I’m pretty sure with the reduced capacity last year this will remain pretty much the same, potentially increase by 0.1. Avg attendances last year was 4319, this year it is likely to be close to 7000, however that difference is pretty much the east stand capacity + the few hundred capacity we have been given by the north stand inspection – I would say this will be 0.8 for both last grading and this grading.

3. Primacy of Tenure – Pretty straight forward, this was a 0.25 last grading and will be the same this time around.
4. LEDs advertising – 0 on the last grading, currently 0 as it stands but could be a quick 0.125 should we need it.
5. Big screen – was 0.125 in the last grading, remains at 0.125.

Stadium – Previous grading – 1.675
Projected for this grading – 2.675.

So based of the improvements highlighted in fandom, performance and stadium and the owner investment, which are all things you can see as of now against the criteria, that`s an additional 1.75, which would put us at 14.27. If you take into consideration the things that we can`t see but have probably improved in line with other trends (i.e. you would assume with increase social media / fan interaction that there would be an increase in website visits etc, all of which have not been accounted for here) and then the potential for further improvements to be made i.e. LED boards, I can see us being frustratingly close to getting to that grade A mark!

I'm still not convinced that pulling the plug on aspiring clubs by imposing arbitrary conditions on membership is, for want of a better word, ethical. Clubs like Widnes, Sheffield, London, Bradford etc are all potentially viable given the hope of entry to the top flight...and at least two of those would pull in bigger crowds than a current SL team playing in a rented stadium.Take that hope away and they may well give up.

If they are 'potentially viable' it will show in the IMG score. That's the whole point.

I don't agree, there was always the possibility of a team breaking through but the financial barriers will make that all but impossible.
I like Rugby League as it is, but it's in danger of becoming elitist and arrogant...I don't want to be like a Rhinos fan, and think I'm there by right and not by effort.

Could Hudds be in the mix to drop? Underperforming both on and off the field at the moment.

Nah, only London will drop. With how confident Toulouse are I'm wondering whether we might see 13 teams next year in SL.

Huddersfield are pretty safe for now with their points.
Assuming London won't be in and we will, the next teams in danger are Leigh and Cas but Leigh's on field improvement puts them up a bit.

So for me Cas are competing with Toulouse for that last spot.

Cas have been doing lots of ticket deals this season in a desperate attempt to keep their attendance figures up.
It could be very tight for the last couple of spots.
Lets hope there is nothing coming out of the sky to cause an upset !

Plus their crowds are terrible and after all these years, they still have not improved. They would not be missed in my opinion

[*

I wouldnt be sure PT, Leigh have made progress with academy and foundation apparently, Cas have made improvements on facilities and finance and they were missing 0.5 last time around. Huddersfield have made no progress at all it seems. Looking at the higher grade Bs, it's going to be close with a lot of clubs in the rankings.

Well I guess we'll fing out in October.

Academy doesn't score you any extra IMG points and their foundation is a still a long way behind Wakeys and most of the other SL teams