Dare you say Annakin?

That wasn't really my point, it was more why we seem to persist with some players and not with others.

Of course Williams is currently better and so he should be he's been a SL regular for a number of years. However there is the rub and where I disagree with you. Williams is nowhere near as good as he should be at this point in his career as he gets exposed in every international he plays in.

Problem is he's functional which works at club level but he isn't inspirational as required at international level. Name me a single thing he did in any of the three tests? Maybe one try assist. We need so much more than that but we have absolutely no options.

At least Hampshire provides flashes of individual genius, I just never see that in Williams.

Basically I'm just sick of robotic system driven players used at the top levels of the UK game. What I want is far more strong willed, cocky and independent minded individuals.

No I dare not

Lets be honest, at Super League level Gale looks like the man, he is cocky and is the type of half that just gets under the oppositions skins, a player that oppositions fans love to hate and a club level he is bloody good, he can control a game very well and has got a great kicking game - Yet at international level he looks like a little boy out of his depth and goes into hiding, he is quite the opposite in and England shirt. Some players are very well suited to the international scene, they just play there usual game, okay they might not be the best in there position in terms of ability but they can perform on that level, not sure what it is - For some players it could be nerves, for others it could be playing around different players or maybe it`s the way they are being asked to play by WB just doesn't suit there game?

Apologies for going off on a tangent, my point is one that is separate to the current debate but one that I believe should be considered when selecting/reelecting players to play for England.

I agree with your point HV.
It is also sometimes about playing a different structure with a different team.
Gale plays well at Cas because he suits that style.
You like to think Bennett will work on that with him but as an example he's probably a better half back than Jake Connor but Connor looks like he can fit in any style in pretty much any position.

The same can apply at club. Those saying Hampshire hasn't shown it at his previous club may be surprised if Wakefield suits his style more and he turns their perception around.

And Connor as the grubiness that a a good half back needs to get under the oppositions skin

If Brough was that good why did Leeds,Sts,Wire,Wigan come knocking on his door? or the NRL

The reference to ability as a junior and pointing whoever may be interested in educating themselves in the direction of the Academy tour of 2012 videos that are readily available to watch, if you tube to do so , was to prove the obvious point I was making about God given talent. God given talent as a youngster of course has a massive effect of the ability of said player to go on to great things as a senior, only a dullard would think otherwise. There are many reasons why perhaps some talented young players have not gone on to achieve as much as hoped, in my opinion luck, attitude and coaching are principle among these.

He may or may not be the best British HB of the last 10 years but the fact that any of the above didn'y sign him is irrelevant.

Shudds made him a huge offer way bigger than anyone else and with Brough's off field issues it was an offer he couldn't refuse - this is one of the few things I claim o know as fact.

As it happens I think Hudds got a good deal and he was worth every penny they paid him.

That's fair enough.

Cracking debate this guys.

I think a lot of it goes back to the promotion and relegation thing - Wakefield last year for example were fighting for £75k just for finishing fifth. It makes it very difficult for coaches to look at the long term when picking their team and will almost always go for a seasoned player who will guarantee you a 7/10 performance, rather than a young player who might give you an 8 but also a 3....

With regard to Rocky his career is very much in his own hands. He's been offered a deal by Wakefield which he has initially rejected because "the numbers weren't right". Well, I'm afraid him or his agent are not really in a position to be that bold. He's had a very stuttering career up to press, and considering he's one of 4 pivots at Wakefield with no guarantees of being a first choice, I don't see where else a better offer will come from.

He has potential, but at this point I personally feel like he's miles away from fulfilling it - first and foremost he needs to nail down a regular spot at HB.

I appreciate I'm biased but when you're looking at internationals a few years down the line Trueman at 19 is likely to overtake him in the non too distant future if he doesn't nail that spot down. It's impossible to say who will be better but he's certainly getting the better opportunities and he's obviously getting the recognition having won young player of the year.

At the moment no SL HB really looks like making the international HB spot their own. Williams and Myler are awfully average, and whilst Gale excels at Cas, the polar difference between how cas play and how Bennett wants England to play means he's struggled to adapt his game. And as such, shown his game isn't the right fit for England. I think it's a little naive for some to say he simply goes missing for England - I can't imagine Bennett giving him a game plan of "play like you do for cas". He's just not the right fit. As such I wouldn't even consider Gale under Bennett.

The other issue is England at international level simply don't play enough games. It must be bloody tough to run a game from HB when as a squad you're only together for a few weeks a year for a handful of games, playing completely different systems to what you've played all year.

Granted other nations are the same, but given SOO in Australia, it's not so much of an alien concept to their players

Massively agree. Until we get someone like that we will be forever crying out for a top half back. Brough is the closest to that explanation in SL and it is a travesty not one coach has centralised him in the international team to see how he would fare

I think one of the problems with our national side over the years, is that we have had a tendancy to pick players in different positions as to what they usually play in at club level, such as full backs, and loose forwards in the halves, and so on. It is as if some of these players get their skills coached out of them.

Now I dont like Tomkins, but in the first two tests, played in the halves, which is where he started his Wigan career, and played really well.

I do believe that overseas players doesnt help, and i think the quota should be reduced a little to help produce and retain our own

I played HB & had some of those traits, so can empathise, but don't think it is entirely necessary. How many top Aussie HBs of the last few years have been like Alex Murphy? You need the confidence to call the shots, but you don't have to be a pri ck.

This is true self belief and showmanship don’t always come hand in hand with being an . It’s rarer I grant you but it happens.

Funny looking back on all the comments on this thread talking up Richardson on here for an England shirt, putting him on that same pedestal the likes of Jamie Foster were put on yet not many actually watch the player himself and what he brings to the team, on the back of my comments on here you could quite clearly see just how he fell off as the season went on. Looks set to join Leigh, yes he is young and still has the chance to become a good SL player but Holbrook has replaced him first chance he got. If Richardson was at Wakefield he would be 4th/5th choice halfback at the club, definitely behind Brough, Miller and Hampshire.

I think that the lack of real top quality half backs means that the first time ANY young British player shows any signs of being creative, they are lauded as the new messiah, especially if they happen to wear a Wigan, Leeds or Saints jersey.

What ever happened to Jordan Lilley



At the start of this thread, Vasty suggested that far too many prospects get moved aside far anyone with an Aussie accent and I agree with him.

Just about every club is happy to move a homegrown player aside to make way for an Aussie pivot

Firstly you have to find one (an English HB), then coach them well and this is probably the stumbling block.
Due to the limited numbers we've had over the years, there isn't enough decent coaching to take someone to the next level in this position.
You only really learn from someone who is better and has better knowledge of the position and how many of those are there bringing the young lads through.

Richardson is fine. He's just young.
I reckon he'll still play for England.

Time to give weighting to overseas signings? Overseas halfback costs you 2 overseas squad places?

So can we sign let's say Greg Inglis as a centre and then play him at 6?

Too hard to manage that rule.

If it’s premature for people to praise him on the back of a little bit of good form, then isn’t it hypocritical to be crowing at the first sign of him not being picked?

Might not even be a quality issue. He may have come back from the offseason with poor fitness, too cocky an attitude based on the praise, might have had a slight niggle that he needs to work on fitness wise away from Super League.

Seems like you’ve knee jerked and jumped on the first sought opportunity that could POSSIBLY support your view, which would be ok if you weren’t criticising others for being too quick to laud him.

Richardson is a young player with plenty still to learn but he has plenty of talent and his time will come again soon enough. Going and working on those deficiencies away from the superleague spotlight for a while will do him the world of good.

I can't get on board with an attitude that makes you happy to report back that a young player is faltering, just to prove yourself right - it's churlish at best.

Richardson is, without a doubt, a very talented young player - the why's and wherefore's of what he does this season are between him and his coach, but I have no doubt that he'll be back in the Saints lineup and will have a great career. It could be argued that they're actually managing him very well by letting him develop out of the spotlight for a while - because there are plenty of examples of it being done the other way, and going badly wrong.

Bigger picture - we have a severe shortage of these types of players in the UK, because the junior game is a) like the Wild West b) places no significant value on a small lad with silky skills and c) is run by enthusiastic dads with no real coaching pedigree; by the time a kid is spotted and starts training with a pro academy, there's a lot of uncoaching to do before the actual coaching can begin.

Get a grip and stop throwing out personal insults because you got it wrong, some posters on here were calling for him to play for England last year, I am not basking in the glory of a young player faltering at all, I simply pointed out from day 1 that he was going to be a victim of been over hyped and currently was no better than Hampshire, he played in a fantastic side last season yet brought very little to that side.