Think it was more me than PB defending Eric.

Your post is fair enough. For me Eric's got it massively wrong and will live to regret it which is a shame. However it is possible to remain friends with those you don't agree with so long as they remain honourable.

Even within SWAG and the Trust there is not total agreement. I'm totally pro BV and have been for a long time- I believe NM has the potential to a white elephant. If I recall I only think Jinjer shared my opinion though I may be wrong on that.

Despite that I support the majority opinion even though it's not mine because I feel those involved are honourable. I just don't want this to get any nastier than it is and I don't want to isolate people like Eric.

Eric is honourable but he's in a minority of one where that lot are concerned for now.

Good point he's clearly still heavily involved but he's not on the list - I'll try and find out. He's probably told me but I wasn't listening properly.

My thoughts too Coco.

The plans for the stadium at BV look nothing like the artist impression previously shown, the new plans are if possible a poor mans version, imaging the most temporary basic structures you can and then in your mind make them even more temporary and less impressive. Then imaging a cheaper version, then you have got it. Also picture looking down the ground from the North stand there is an area to the right of the Benidorm flats that will not be part of the club but an extension of an existing building outside of the ground. Do not worry though because there are 37 packing spaces for the club to use on match days, so corporate guests, away directors, players families will have to park in the detritus that is Agbrigg and walk to the game, nice. That`s OK though because there is massive parking reserved for the super market shoppers only who will be using the new super market that going up on the SB site. The proposals are based on the fact that Box, Walker, Richardson know that Yorkcourt will get planning for the housing on the stadium site at Newmarket but will only pay up a pittance, in years to come towards BV. Box will present the BV upgrade as the answer but it will be, rightly so, totally unacceptable to the club and the original trust. Box then paints the Club as the stumbling block. They hope that MC and CB walk then Walker and his new trust take over the running of the club and the so called stadium. Hey presto we go bust and disappear. The biggest con has been the play to keep the club at BV, as PB said this has been Walkers and Box plan from day one, they have played on peoples emotional attachment to what is a dump , situated in a bigger dunp. We need to leave BV and Wakefield now, lets call ourselves Trinity and move.

Belly, I'm guessing you have seen no plan and the reference to the mosque is unhelpful. The club leaves Wakefield and it will die. Our best hope is to stay.

Looks like it boils down to where we want to die then?

I don't care if Eric Timmins is a lifelong fan and a nice guy; the point is, its not for Mr Box to dictate the composition of the Trust, let alone to set up a new one that he can more readily work with to achieve the nefarious aim of enriching Messrs Walker, Mackie and Hussein. How dare he attempt to sideline the man who put his own money into saving the club and making it a viable concern, after years of dodgy dealings - some of which 'lifelong fan' Mr Timmins was party to?!

As I said a few weeks ago, the latest BV proposal is a pig in a poke and will never be other than a watered down version of those stupid bloody drawings; we're being shafted, and because so many supporters have got Stockholm Syndrome after all the trauma, they are prepared to accept anything, because it feels better than nothing.

The whole situation is a microcosm of British society - a few wealthy individuals exercise power over the masses for their own benefit, and somehow convince enough of the masses to be grateful for scraps from the table; it's disgusting.

But he can decide whether he has any interest in securing a stadium with the current Trust. If he doesn't, then is the other Trust the only alternative? Yes, it's all wrong, but if it achieves what is desired in terms acceptable to the club, is there a choice? The focus should be on the desired outcome, not how it is delivered or who delivers it.

If Box wants to present a decent Belle Vue a community stadium somewhere as his brainchild, and if it hadn't been for the pesky club, etc, fine, give him his spot on the winner's podium. My interest is a viable club in a viable stadium.

If, however, the change makes it not viable, Box deserves all the flak coming his way.

But the same logic does not seem to apply to Mr Box - if the desired outcome is the community stadium that his council is supposedly committed to, what does it matter to him if the delivery vehicle happens to be driven by someone he doesn't like i.e Michael Carter?

As I said - Stockholm Syndrome - some of us have fallen in love with our abuser.

It clearly does matter to him though. I think we all trust MC and CB enough for them to make a business decision that benefits the club. If they reject what is offered, it will be the right thing to do. If they accept, it doesn't matter how it is delivered.

If, however, it is just about making money for the few, and blaming the club when they say get lost, then it was never going to happen anyway under the current structure.

It clearly does matter to him - and that's wrong; if MC & CB are expected to work with anyone just to get the right outcome, how come you don't have the same expectation of Mr Box? If this is purely about delivering the stadium, his personal preferences about the Trust personnel shouldn't even be a factor - the Trust already exists, and he should be required to put aside his petty vendetta against people who won't roll over to his every whim and just get on with it.

It's abundantly clear to even the most casual observer that Mr Box is working in the interests of Messrs Walker and Mackie, to sweep aside the irritation that is WT, so they can get rich off Newmarket; I challenge anyone to come up with an alternative scenario that is more credible.

You seem to have everything sewn up here with what's going to happen, you advocate we move to Dewsbury but like your mate pb you never seem to come up with a viable plan if we do move, perhaps maybe you could share your thoughts for the future assuming you've thought that far ahead.

I don't disagree, but if that is his intention, it was never going to happen anyway. But what if this way does deliver something acceptable?

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it might be the only option.

Well seeing as you have brought me into it, let me try and answer your concern.
I have no idea regarding the finances and mechanics of actually running the club. MC and CB are the only ones who know those details. However I hope you agree that so far they have shown to be extremely competent in that regard.

What I do know is that those two have looked at alternative grounds and obviously done a business plan in respect of this. It has been more than fag packet stuff, they have gone over the pros and cons in great detail. They both know how precarious our existence is at Belle Vue and are not so stupid to not have fall back options in place.

So if they decide to leave BV then I am more than happy to back their judgement and accept that they consider it to be the right option.

So rather than ask me or Belly why not ask MC if he has a viable plan or don't you think he is capable of coming up with one.

Khlav, final nail just been hammered in, my contact who has seen the plans ( well he would do as he works for the firm who drew them up ) has just advised me that Rodney Walkers very very close friend and ally Denise - you do know that Rodney and I went to school together- Jeffries will be the Chair of the new trust.
You just could not make it up. So Box`s lap dog and Walkers bit of fluff is going to head up the new trust.

As I say lets get the hell out of this dodgy Borough

The only way that "this" will deliver a new stadium, will be if MC & CB walk away.
None of us know if they are asking for/expecting too much, although they are, after all, only asking for the terms of the original Newmarket deal and it appears that the "sideshow" being encouraged and controlled by Mr Box and WMDC is offering something completely different.

It still baffles me how another trust can be established over the top of the original Trust.
The one sure thing is that, had the boot been on the other foot and say MC & CB wanted to form a new trust, they would be escorted to the city limits and asked not to come back.

One other point (and I know it's been mentioned previously) and that is why on earth did MC revoke his threat of the High Court.
This appeared to be the only leverage that we had ?

I still concur with Slugger's point of view. Of it takes the faux trust to get something out if this mess then so be it. The true trust can remain, if they wish to, and raise bloody he'll about the stench emitting from all of this until the community facilities are delivered.

Slugger, I realise you don't reside in the fiefdom of Box but those of us that do know its a surreal place. For instance in this very same fiefdom an almost identical scenario is taking place to the one that we are all discussing.

Whilst our down trodden club is being asked to jump through hoops, the supporters are up in arms and protests and groups like SWAG are the norm. Trusts need to be set up and then replaced by phoney trusts. There is another part of the fiefdom where all is well. The supporters are happy, there are no trusts, developers can be trusted and do what they are told. There is no talk of rent and running costs. However an identical sporting club doesn't have nightmares but sleeps soundly in the knowledge they are getting a brand spanking new fit for purpose stadium for £1.

This clearly demonstrates that Mr Box has total control of his fiefdom and the power to make anything happen. So I am saying there are numerous options open, it just so happens that in our case MR BOX chooses the biggest pile of crap option that is possible.

First of all I didn't bring you into anything, it's a forum and you invited yourself in once again describing the shameful way Box and Co. have behaved, we all know that but my point was, seeing as you and belly were more forceful than most on here regarding the subject what would you suggest we do if indeed you'd thought that far ahead.

As you admit you have no idea regarding finances and mechanics of actually running the club, and I dare say that belly has even less of an idea but here you are both advocating leaving immediately in the hope that Mr Carter has a plan B.

As for asking Mr Carter if he has a viable plan it doesn't matter what I think, he'll tell me and everybody else if and when the time comes, as it goes I certainly think he's capable of sorting out this mess to our satisfaction, I can't speak for you and your mate though.

And that's been the plan all along - force the club and its supporters into a position of meek complicity, where even the thin gruel (to coin a phrase) on offer is a better option that starving to death.

Chapeau Mr Box - you've played a blinder.

There is a plan B , there is no hope about it. What people think about it and how good it is , is a matter of discussion and everyone will have different views. Can't answer for Belly but in my opinion I think it would be better to try an implement it whilst we can, are still strong and in a position to have the best chance of making it work. If Bellle Vue being redeveloped is pure fantasy , then staying right till the bitter end, may leave it too late to make the most of plan B.

And no I will not tell you what plan B is, go back over the forums its been well discussed and aired.

I certainly get the impression of what it's like and I'm not in any way suggesting what's happened is right? The questions for me are this:
1. Is Box going to deliver the stadium in the Trust format as it has currently been constituted?
2. If no, what are the better of the options available:
(a) see how acceptable the new suggestion is? If acceptable, accept. If unacceptable, reject.
(b) look at alternative solutions as a matter of urgency, in the event that a) is unacceptable.

I presume that 2(b) is being looked at in the event that the answer to 2(a) is unacceptable, and I've no doubt that MC will make the right decision.

Understand that Denese Jeffries is appointing Oliver Rowley on new Trust to act as deputy. Nobody hates Trinity more than Rowley, so far we have a Cas Councillor in Jeffries ( Box`s lap dog ) and Rowley who hates us. Going well so far.

Yep Rowley has never been very supportive of Trinity has she? especially not in my personal dealings
with her, that's for sure.

Agree with Slugger and Khlav that we are now at the stage of salvaging what we can out of this wreck.