But that being the case, you would have never addressed the real structural problems that are stopping Wakefield not just surviving in SL but excelling.

As for the Newmarket proposal, i hope it comes up for you, but its wrong to say franchising is causing you to rush it, you have been in SL for 12 years now, ample time. Maybe franchising has focussed Wakefield a little more, but this is a good thing. As this off-season is showing, Wakefield at Belle Vue simply isnt sustainable. It is Belle Vue (in the main) which is responsible for the financial problems, pushing you to replace it can only be a good thing long term for the game, but also for Wakefield.

Your friends at the RFL did give the people of Bridgend a right to the game - but then they took it away to a non-league soccer club with a half-decent stadium.The efforts of your friends at the RFL to expand the game have been spectacular failures.
Giving a leg-up to a club where former employees were guilty of a charity scam,where the former CEO is on bail for theft anf fraud charges and where the soccer supporters have a deep mistrust for the 2 owners of Crusaders.
Taking the current CEO from another club in an expansion area hardly benefits the other club and the finacial undertaking with Crusaders is anything but a level playing field.
Higher attendances are usually found in local derby games but with the country in economical decline supporters have to find money to go to France to follow their side.
Unfortunately,with Wrexham being so accessible for supporters living in 'the heartlands' the Crusaders attendances may be reasonable but the off-field situation at Wrexham is simmering.
It is hardly a level playing field for a club to lose its Super League Licence because the council won't construct a stadium.It is nothing to do with rugby league.

:3mq7rr1kThey didnt give anybody the right to the game, They already have it. The game doesnt belong to you, me, Leeds Rhinos, Crusaders or Wakefield Trinity Wildcats. It belongs to all of us.
:3mq7rr1kthe operative word there being former. However ill you wish to speak of Crusaders it doesnt alter the fact that after 137 years, 12 years in SL, and years of SL money, Wakefield still havent addressed their structural problems. Wakefield are failling because of faillings at Wakefield. Not because of Crusaders or the Expansion bogeyman. Wakefield would be where they are regardless of Crusaders admission to the League.
:3mq7rr1kI think you will find Rod Findlay makes his own decisions.
:3mq7rr1kThats not Crusaders fault. Les Catalans fault, or anyone else in RL's fault. If you want to watch a West Yorkshire league, go start one, see how many people and clubs want to follow you. See how many television companies want to screen it and see how long it survives.
:3mq7rr1kerrm, yes, its definitly unfortunate that a Rugby League clubs attendance is reasonable. Gosh darn them, why cant they just be crap and support your argument, Why do they have to be better and make you look silly
Wakefield would still be in this position. You can blame whoever you want but you cant get around the fact that people dont want to watch Wakefield at Belle Vue, 12 years of SL havent improved that position and the business model is proving to be unsustainable there. Pass the buck all you want. Bad mouth expansion, Crusaders, Quins whoever it doesnt matter, It wont make Wakefield any stronger.

If Wakefield were getting good attendances, they would have more money, a better squad, better youth development, better financials, and be in all around a better position and the stadium wouldnt loom so large,

And at the end of the season even if they have won all their games people with the same opinion as you decide they don't deserve a chance at top flight rugby. How can that be fair? I ask again, where's the motivation to win the Championship?




You want big crowds. You want exiting games. You should have been at the Wakefield V Castlford relegation battle game a few seasons ago. I'm not sure i've ever seen as many at Belle View! It's a far fairer way of getting rid of the 'worst team' than dragging it out for four years and then denying them a place in the league based on their franchise application!


Correct me if i'm wrong here, but where did I blame franchising for our current situation?

The gap between the the Super League and Championship is always increasing and undoubtedly scrapping P&R has increased this dramatically. The leagues don't even score themselves them in the same way anymore!

the same motivation there is to win SL. To win.

wasnt there about 11k there? which would be Leeds lowest attendance of the season by some way. The point of franchising isnt to have one, one off match a season attracting good crowds to see a game to decide who is the worst, its to put in place the structures and allow clubs to build to getting good crowds all the time and to allow clubs to build to be challenging at the top.

which just shows how silly P+R was.

To those who want a break away league to house former Yorkshire greats, I can confirm that in 2012 there will be a league where there will be local derbies, involving us, Dewsbury, Batley, Fev, and possibly Cas and Halifax. These will slug it out all season and will have not only TV money but also it's own knock out tournament.

That's what is being asked for by some loons, and it is on it's way for us. It's called the Championship. Now what was your point again?

I agree with Smokey wholehearteredly here. If Wakefield get relegated, it will be the clubs fault, not the RFL's. The club has had more than enough time to sort itself out, it hasn't and it could fall to pieces soon because of it.

Smokey's quite right about the RFL wanting a strong Wakefield side. Wakefield is a RL hotbed with a very high amount of amateur players in the area. The population of Wakefield is higher than that of Hull, the home of two successful SL clubs. To say the RFL wants Wakefield out solely because they want an expansion side in is madness. The RFL are taking a leaf out of the NRL book with Franchises, so I'm sure they're also aware that the NRL has eight teams in Sydney. This means that five SL teams in West Yorkshire is possible. If Wakefield were well run, well supported and financially viable the RFL would be more than happy for us to be in. The likelihood is we'll get kicked out and that will be because the club is badly run.

Mr Slithers you talk about the attendance at the relegation battle at Belle Vue, but have you looked at the attendances for the rest of the matches that season? If I remember rightly more than half of the matches didn't reach 40% of capacity. There were only three significant attendances that season; the two against Cas and one against Bradford in the first round, the rest were pitifully low. In fact we played Bradford twice that season, the second match being about half the attendance of the first and the attendance for Leeds was about half of the same fixture the previous year. The reliance for attendances on two or three matches a season is true of every season. We always rely on the travelling fans of Leeds, Bradford and Cas to bump up our attendances. Heck, even when we have a half price ticket offer to see Diversity we still can't anywhere near the capacity.

Absolutely ludricous statement believing that the RFL want a strong Wakefield Wilcats, it reads a good argument but is grasping at straws. Have you forgotten Celtic Crusaders, Harlequins and Catalan Dragons, they are representive of which town or city?

Do any of those clubs have a strong fan base, travelling support or infrastucture?

Wakefield and Castleford are both easily identified with not only every rugby league fan but all viewers of the sport on SKY TV.

I feel that neither the RFL or SKY are bothered which club is in Super League as long as either club has a new stadium a good financial base, a good fan base and the infrstructure in place to support the club going forward.

Yes that is a contradiction as to what is actually happening when looking at the clubs guarenteed a Super League place.

If we want to remain in Super League we have to deliver what the RFL and SKY want, if we cannot then theres no point apportioning blame to the RFL or SKY, the club knew what was at stake when they recieved a franchise 3 years ago, have the club or more importantly the BOD moved us forward enabling us to be in a strong position for the new license application they have not.

It is easy to blame others for the problems that beset the club, me personally the club itself is to blame for the dilema we now face.

You really don't get my point at all do you?


I am not talking about the Wildcats, we have obviously been poorly managed and now we look to be in the and unlike other teams in the SL we don't look like we'll get bailed out by the RL. I am talking about the franchise situation in general. Promotion and relegation gives all teams hope at playing at the top regardless of where they are based or how large their crowds are. Scrapping promotion and relegation has essentially told clubs they have no chance at getting to the top and been used as an excuse to save teams that didn't deserve to be there. What kind of motivation is that?!?!?
Promotion and relegation keeps the season alive until the last whistle, it makes it exciting at both ends of the table and it is fair for all clubs, it links the leagues, franchising does not!

Yes I know, I went to a lot of them. Without knowing it you have just proved my point and shown why we need promotion and relegation! The battles bring in the crowds and make the final games exciting. I'm moaning about the way Super League teams are decided, not about the way we have been managed.

but they dont compete at the top, it often led to them spending money they didnt have trying to stay up, not doing so and costing them money they didnt have.

It did tell some clubs they didnt have the chance to be in SL. They ones who couldnt and wouldnt compete or succeed in SL. Im not sure why you are so excited about having teams in SL that are going to be spanked every week and wont benefit for it.

If you want the season kept alive until the last whistle. Be better. Compete and qualify for the play-offs.

Yes, it did give you one good attendance a few years ago. But there were 13 other matches that year which didnt get good attendances, and P+R forced Wakefield to focus on staying up, rather than addressing why there were 13 matches which were poorly attended

I certainly do get your point but you fail to recognise the reality of the situation.

1) There is a franchise system
2) There is no relegation or promotion

Where you against it when we recieved our franchise three years ago.

Stop looking for excuses and apportioning blame it not the system its the club thats at fault.

Can you not see that happens already?


Touché

And without P&R this game would have been another one!

but getting rid of it means you can focus on the other 13 games instead. getting the attendance for those games up

True.


I've always been against it.



FFS

I AM NOT AND NEVER HAVE TRIED TO MAKE AN EXCUSE FOR THE POOR RESULTS AND MANAGEMENT OF THE CLUB. I am trying to get across the point that I don't like a lot of things that Super League stands for and going back to the original question by the OP then, no I don't think it's worth it!

Or just give up mid season like our players did.

Do you ever log off?

We get TV money ?

It's not a sport anymore is it ?

That's the point your working towards

And that Smokey, is why I won't ever truly agree with you on this issue. Fair enough non league RL sides play to win, some players play just to get wages in Pro RL and match bonuses. However in Wakefields case and along with the likes of clubs who have a very slim chance of returning to Super League once they are deadlocked in the national league, who at one time or another have had varying degrees of success whether that be in recent years or years gone by, it is quite plain that there will never be major interest in a club of which the prospects of success in the sport are constricted by a 'vision' of the sport becoming nationally played and appreciated.

Fact is that I don't just want my club to win hollow matches and watch us stay rooted, and not have the chance to be the best. For example, I support Sheffield Wednesday, and although we aren't in the best position at the moment, I know that one day we may well make a return to the premier league. As such I don't care about winning as such, but about the progress of the club. My fear is that Wakey will be denied the same chance, and as showed by the franchise system, we don't have the same chance as some of the more desirable 'expansion clubs'.

Even though we may well have a good license application in 3 years time, this could be dismissed for all we know, owing to the league remaining at 14 teams. It just seems that we will indeed be plunged into the mire if we have to spend a minimum of 3 seasons in the national league.

Which leads back to my original point, I would like to feel assured that we have the same chances of being 'promoted' again without fear that we aren't a desirable club and as such don't stand a chance. However, evidence suggests that we aren't fighting on an even playing field. As shown by the RFL stating that one SL team would be dropped before any applications had been recieved. It was completely unfair to judge before having any materials or evidence in which to judge initially. In addition to this, the Welsh franchise has received vast amounts of preferential treatment over the past year, which in itself would be fine had the RFL come out and said that this franchise would receive backing from the RFL. Unfortunately supporters seem to be led down cul-de-sacs and stringed along. I do not just speak for Wakefield of course, but the clubs who are in the same league as us; Leigh, Halifax, Featherstone, Castleford and so on.

But the point is, you wouldnt want Sheffield Wednesday back in the premier league, if it was only going to cause the same problems that almost put the club out of existance last time, and are still being felt now having put the club in 3rd tier of football would you.

P+R was part of a system that nigh on killed Sheffield Wednesday, it certainly contributed to their problems. What franchising would mean, is that whilst it may take a little longer to get them back to the premier league, when they do, they will be much better placed to take advantage of it.

If Wakefield were to be relegated under a P+R system this year, what benefit will they get out of it? none really, they will lose a lot of money and visibility. Yes they may get promoted next year, but if they havent addressed any of their structural problems that are affecting them now, and causing the problems they are having now, they are going to be in exactly the same position when they are promoted, only this team weakend by a year spent in the lower leagues. They then have the priority of staying in the league over and above addressing their problems. As we have seen, Wakefield have spent 12 years pretty much uniformly having one aim, avoiding relegation which has meant the problems affecting them 12 years ago are still the same problems affecting them now.

Smokey,
It must be true.You are employed by the RFL.
Sheffield Wednesday experienced trouble mainly because of [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/nov/24/sheffield-wednesday-sir-dave-richardsSir Richards[/url and now sport attracts [url=http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8791465.Watford_Football_Club__takeover____lead____exposed_as_fraudster/these type of people[/url

Quote ="TwoBlues"Smokey, It must be true.You are employed by the RFL. Sheffield Wednesday experienced trouble mainly because of [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/nov/24/sheffield-wednesday-sir-dave-richardsSir Richards[/url and now sport attracts [url=http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8791465.Watford_Football_Club__takeover____lead____exposed_as_fraudster/these type of people[/url'" Sheffield Wednesday experienced trouble because they spent money they didnt have trying to stay in the league, then when they were relegated they spent money they didnt have trying to get back up and paying the wages of the players they had signed to try and stay (but ultimately failed) in the PL They then fell to the third tier and the same problem happened again. and sport has always attracted people like www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.c ... -27405284/ and www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/ ... h_1_958679 and www.independent.co.uk/sport/chai ... 03255.html and aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/20 ... ud-claims/ and tvnz.co.nz/content/1268119/423466/article.html

Quote ="TwoBlues"Smokey, It must be true.You are employed by the RFL. Sheffield Wednesday experienced trouble mainly because of [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn-inside-sport-blog/2010/nov/24/sheffield-wednesday-sir-dave-richardsSir Richards[/url and now sport attracts [url=http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8791465.Watford_Football_Club__takeover____lead____exposed_as_fraudster/these type of people[/url'" Sheffield Wednesday experienced trouble because they spent money they didnt have trying to stay in the league, then when they were relegated they spent money they didnt have trying to get back up and paying the wages of the players they had signed to try and stay (but ultimately failed) in the PL They then fell to the third tier and the same problem happened again. and sport has always attracted people like www.runcornandwidnesweeklynews.c ... -27405284/ and www.wakefieldexpress.co.uk/news/ ... h_1_958679 and www.independent.co.uk/sport/chai ... 03255.html and aussiecriminals.wordpress.com/20 ... ud-claims/ and tvnz.co.nz/content/1268119/423466/article.html

If P&R sent Trinity down then it would be because they weren't good enough for the Super League and then hopefully they would be in a division in which they could contend. This would make the games more interesting for the fans. It would also give another team the opportunity to play in the top league and would allow their fans to experience these 'fantastic' half empty stadiums that people with your attitude decide we must have.

Your blantant support of the franchise system baffles me, I can't see why it's good for the game as a whole.