To be fair to Milner he’s a cracking club player but was on a hiding to nowhere today,as were the rest of the team .Myler on the other hand was found out all too often today and is no where near the standard that we need in an England shirt .

It’s a sad indictment of British RL that Milner made the squad let alone the 19.
Oliver Holmes, although not international standard (in my opinion) was head and shoulders above both of the two players you mentioned last season.

Ashurst wasn't injured.

I know it's subjective and your opinion but in what ways was Holmes head and shoulders above Ashurst last year?

I know most people are going to rate a player from their side more than a player from another especially if they're similar quality, just down to Club affiliation plus seeing a lot more of them, but surely if he was that much better he'd have made the Dream team instead of Ashurst Steady.

I might just about accept that Holmes had a better season than Ashurst JUST but head and shoulders! Seriously Steady?

Hasn't Holmes played for Scotland before?

I’m sober now so will accept that head & shoulders was a tad enthusiastic! That said, stand by my opinion that Holmes had a better season that either Milner or Ashurst.
As with any player; this is is subjective & I suppose it depends what you want & or expect from a second rower; so for the benefit of this specific debate I obviously went with what I saw; admittedly I saw more of Holmes than Ashurst so view is skewed in his favour, but I also looked at the following:

Tries:
Holmes 9
Ashurst 4

Tackles:
Holmes 710
Ashurst 1058

Missed tackles:
Holmes 29
Ashurst 42

Tackle busts:
Holmes 39
Ashurst 42

Metres:
Holmes 1976
Ashurst 1916

Av. Gain:
Holmes 7.24
Ashurst 6.92

Clean breaks:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 8

Errors:
Holmes 10
Ashurst 18

Offloads:
Holmes 14
Ashurst 9

Penalties:
Holmes 18
Ashurst 28

I think that both Ashurst & Holmes are good, honest players so I won’t be too upset if people see it differently!

Those stats are broadly meaningless without seeing how many appearances and how many minutes they played - but assuming for a minute they're similar, there's nowt between them; two very solid, unspectacular but exceptionally hardworking players - one of whom is in the Dream Team...

Was just thinking Brough and Miller both naturally play down the left, if that is the partnership we are going with, I wonder who will play scrum half?

I cut & paste the stats from a post I made a few weeks back elsewhere & if memory serves Holmes had 20 appearances to Ashursts 30 - which suits each player in certain stats, but like you say Bren it doesn’t take minutes into account or even what their respective coaches ask them to do.

Indeed - stats are a very blunt instrument.

But we can agree that Matty Ashurst, 2018 Dream Team Member, and Oliver Holmes, Cas player, are *quite* similar - but not *exactly* the same, yes...?

Ha ha! I was hoping to not have to address this point, but now that you’ve backed me into a corner I’ll submit that Ashursts inclusion into the Super League dream team is quite an achievement, but I doubt It crossed Oggy’s mind when he was stood in his England jersey singing the national anthem before taking on France & then PNG!

Credit where it's due - that's an excellent return of serve!

According to love Rugby League, Holmes had 27 appearances, 20 starts and 7 at sub, link below. I thought it was 20 games in total when I first used to check the site for stats but if you count the games he's played for Cas it's 27. 22 games before the S8 and 5 in the S8.
[urlhttps://www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/players/oliver-holmes/[/url

You got Ashurst correct at 30

[urlhttps://www.loverugbyleague.com/stats/players/matty-ashurst/[/url

Actually just looking both played 1 CC game so it's 26 for Holmes and 29 for Ashurst SL games.

Cheers shifty!

Bump.

Say that again.

quoting you this as you like to always prove you was right, yes he's been a revelation for us hasn't he

NGB4C is on an enforced break from here at the moment, Snowie

You’re like a child

You were begging pop tart to ban him like a 12 year old girl at net ball practice

He was just a passionate n loyal fan that wanted some where to air his opinion

Leave it alone you’re continuing obsession with NGB4C is embarrassing

He was and probably still is a self opinionated bigoted troll with a personal agenda that was more suited to his school playground.

You couldn’t be more wrong

He has no personal agenda at all he’s just a passionate fan

He’s not remotely bigoted either

A few people have taken it upon them selves to bully him to the point he’s being banned

This forum is about freedom of speech

Just because he has opinions on players and has perhaps not expressed himself in the best way and given views that were not positive or rose tinted. It doesn’t make him a bad person

Ngb4c has become some one that for the forum bullies have ganged up on to ridicule and bully

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

Although it is his right to not rate players, you have to admit his obsession with Crowther was bordering on the ridiculous. A bit like Blaymire.

Firstly, I've been really pleased how everyone has handled the current form and loss to Wigan.
I haven't had to moderate one post which surprised me so let's not get all personal now.

NGB4C is only on a temporary ban.