The bottom line is have we since the start of the season seen any sign of improvement. We all know that we were provided with one of the worst squads but you would expect that there would be some improvement. I regret that at best we have stagnated not helped by the rank stupid decision to swap our centre. I would suggest whoever thought this was the way to go should resign because they clearly lack any rugby intelligence to remain.
If it was not the Coach then he should also now go, several on the forum gave him to the Cas game, we have gone far beyond this without any glimmer of a win. He is which I think most must now agree (except Carter for whatever reason) think he is clearly out of his depth and maybe the academy would be a better use of his limited abilities.
It is clear that if he remains then more supporters will walk away and will they return next season that is the question. I know this will upset some but it is time for Carter to step down, he is going at the end of the season and I believe he does not help to generate any enthusiasm and maybe his early retirement is a positive. I actually doubt either will fall on their swords and we the supporters will just have to accept it with a continuing season of ridicule and uncertainty culminating in the obvious relegation.

I was Mash to succeed but it’s clear he needs a good strong supporting set up around him at this point in his career to do that. Currently he doesn’t have that. Hopefully they will be addressed soon enough.

At the end of the day Mash is way out of his depth,as a coach .this is Chester part 2 The last 3 years with Chester were garbage,. is signings started the rot that we are in now.,and all the time there were fans coming on and saying he needs help .Mash like Chester is the one to blame and he should be sacked . He is the head coach ,he is in charge of who comes in and who leaves and his decisions have been mind blowing to say the least .Mash do the decent thing and go and then we can play rugby again instead of the garbage you are making the team play. Think PopTart said we could do with Finn If Finn was here he would be one of the fastest players in the team That sums it up now bad as are

Sorry but no. Applegarth is either up to the job or he isn’t. If a head coach needs someone to hold his hand then he isn’t the right man to be head coach and an alternative needs to be found.

I agree.
Though some have suggested Mash go back to assistant.

Didn't Leeds do that with Powell in his first stint? Worked out well for him.

I never said hold his hand. You just said that. What I said was a support pillar/sounding board etc. let’s not pretend coaches won’t communicate and take advice from within their own set ups. Currently that set up is none existent for us.

My preference would likely be to not look for an assistant but to look for a new coach and move Apelgarth back down to assistant. I mentioned this weeks ago. But if the board wish to stick with Apelgarth he needs a strong coaching set up around him that he can garner support from, this for me should include an experienced coach. Whether that be an assistant or two assistants or a DOR I dont know but it can’t stay as it is and whatever change or appointment it needs to be looking at the next 2-5 years at least.

Yep i said that because thats exactly what you are advocating and you are wrong. If he needs a d.o.r. to advise him (and that role isn’t meant for that anyway by the way) then he isn’t ready for the job. Get a head coach that is up to it and you don’t need to waste money on an advisory role.

Like Wigan have Shaun Wayne who is leadership & Management Director

Which is an important role. It just isn't a coaching role.
We should have one so coach can concentrate on coaching.

Ok Wigan have a great squad to choose from , but Matty has a great person looking over proceedings at the club ,and will provide a wealth of experience when required .Our set up is living proof that if you cut corners and don’t have that experience and right people in place in the right positions within the management structures of a club ,your on a hiding to nowhere ,as we see unfolding before our very eyes .Our choices of players and contracts has been at best woefully inadequate and whilst MA might have been great with the junior set ups , it’s a whole different ball game with adults and their management needs . Fingers crossed going forwards we can get the right people in the right places behind the scenes and see those benefits on the field in the coming seasons .

Any coach worth his salt won’t want Applegarth as an assistant because he’s got a reputation for undermining those in front of him to advance himself.

Applegarth needs to go and go completely from the club, he’s moved on from being a Youth Coach and if he still has ambition to be a Head Coach he needs to drop into the Championship and build his experience.

It’s not hindsight from me to say it because I said even before he was given the job, he wasn’t ready, he was a ‘coach by numbers’ kind of Coach, he would make players play to a strict job description thus eliminating ingenuity & flair, his playing format would be get to a point (40s & 60s) and play wedge/double wedge as nausium & his man management wasn’t the best. I said there was a decent Coach in him and maybe one day he’d be SL level but he needed to gain far more experience and wasn’t yet ready.

I said all this the day Willie was sacked and MAs name was rumoured and I got roundly criticised by many on here saying they knew better, they didn’t!

You did say that. No one can argue that.
I have to say I wasn't that keen when he was first mentioned because of his lack of experience.
But the more I listen to him the more I think he is right for the role......however the attack is stunted and I'm not sure its the thing you say. Playing to a strict job description isn't a problem to me, providing you have the people to do it.
Dropping a high ball to the winger under no pressure is nothing to do with Mash. Every try bar maybe one against Leigh was down to an individual making a basic mistake.
Maybe you can blame the recruitment or the team selection but that's not a game strategy issue.

If the role is to get us to play the worst rugby ever seen in Super League history and go winless throughout the season then fair enough.

But I don’t know how you can keep listening to him. The bloke sounds more dreary than Chester did.

There is some truth in what you say but as a Club we are so far away from the calibre of players required to do this successfully that it really isn’t the right strategy at all. Why, because some years ago defences adapted to that style of attack and can see it coming from a mile away. Players now have an unconscious competence when it comes to defending it, it’s bread and butter stuff when it’s done as crudely and slowly as we try to do it.
Yes it can be successful when employed by far better players but even then it’s only a part of a much wider attacking structure and those players are still allowed to be individualistic, using their own skill set and ingenuity to break defences down. That’s something MA doesn’t like, he prefers his players to stick to the attacking script and his players know the consequence of getting it wrong.

All indicative traits of a Coach who hasn’t developed enough and/or needs much more experience in the game, learning to trust the ability and instincts of his players, letting them off the leash in order to broaden the attacking threat the team carries

We are a long way from that

Unfortunately for Applegarth, he started the season with a poor squad on the back of some bad signings. Meaning we were always one of the weaker teams from the off. Add to that the now annual injuries list, we are now just about fielding a team. Anyone that thinks a win is just around the corner I am afraid are kidding themselves.
Until we get some shape back and players playing in position we will not compete against full strength teams regardless of who the coach is. We desperately need Jowitt back, and some outside backs with some pace, maybe Kay and Dagger on the wings.

I'm starting to consider relegation as a refreshing option.

After 63 yeats of watching Trinity I don't expect us to win every week but I do expect a contest. There's no pleasure in watching your team be nilled or near nilled every week. There is no pleasure in turning up knowing that you will get thrashed. Therefore unless a multi millionaire comes out of nowhere to invest heavily in a competitive team next season I see relegation as the only way I will keep turning up to Belle Vue. That doesn't mean we should throw the towel in this season it's just being realistic

I've been thinking the same for a few weeks now

Carter has brainwashed you into accepting failure

No, I'm just sick of watching a perennial struggler, which we have been long before Carter arrived.

Lack of ambition is now having to be accepted by the fans.
Being a 5/6th placed Championship club doesn't sound all that appealing.

When we are relegated, our income will be further decimated and even with this seasons squad, that would be our likely place in the Championship.

So be it, we don't have the revenue to be much more than bottom dwellers and its been that way for most of the 24 years we've been in SL.

We don’t have the revenue according to the current incumbents but they have cried wolf on this far too many times. We had a chance a few seasons ago but unfortunately friendship got in the way and maybe the fact that to stay where we were was just too daunting financially and much better to return to the more frugal days for which accountants are more comfortable. This led to revenue falling as results and support declined meaning we entered the vicious circle of trimming costs until we reach where we are today.
I admit they have done a good job of making supporters believe the Championship is just a stepping stone back to SL however experience suggests it isn’t or has I have said before more clubs would want to do it. The only plus I see is that there will be more available parking around the ground.

HKR were relegated in 2016 (?) and bounced straight back up; Leigh the same after the drop in 2021.

Fev are unlikely to be in The Champ next season and Toulouse are a spent force at that level. You are yet to be relegated but, should it happen, it could lead to an unusually enjoyable 2024 even though "ups-and-downs" will by then be determined by grading criteria.

My opinions are independent of what Carter et al say. We've struggled way before he arrived, the odd good season was blown the following with an unpaid tax bill or other clubs taking the better players.

This isn't a recent thing.