Why would he face the disciplinary???? You can think what you want mate but the laws of the game don't agree with you, maybe you should take a look at them at some point?

McGuire's was a very professional foul made of out of desperation, exasperation, desire and passion to win, nothing more or nothing less. Do you honestly think that half the Wigan or Leeds or for that matter any teams players (yes, Wakefield as well) would not have pulled the same trick in the same situation then you are kidding yourself! I would bet my house on Sam Tomkins doing exactly the same thing in exactly the same situation.

McGuire should have seen yellow, irrespective of only 5 seconds on the clock and him been injured, but he didn't. In the end Uncle Albert & Bentham did actual penalise McGuire choosing instead to penalise Donald for the a supposed late challenge on Richards (which most people agree it wasn't, Donald was committed) and therefore give Richards and extra 20m gain from the location of the McGuire foul.




To be fair in the modern context of the game and these blokes now making a living from playing then some of this type is always going to go on but as a game it is just occasional incidents and many players are prone to a spot of pretending to be taken out, throwing themselves on the floor in the tackle etc. McGuire is no different to a whole host of half-backs, now and in the past... Alex Murphy, Sean Edwards, Andy Gregory... and the list goes on... oh and Sam Tomkins now deserves a special mention, great player, got two penalties from nothing!

Kevin Henderson did something similar in the 'Judgement Day' game when BJ broke away and scored a 70m try. We were caught, the try was disallowed. Typical Wakey luck versus typical Whinos!

I think I remember that! Yes, rotten luck, it is rubbish when cheating gets in the way of a good try!





I seem to remember Mal Maninga doing something similar in an Aus v GB in the 90's and getting away with it and preventing a potential try... it is even worse when the Aussies cheat and get away with it!

In respect of the McGuire incident, I don't think Wigan had the try sealed by a long way and my gut tells me that if Carmont had been able to get up to Richards in time to take the inside pass (not sure if he would, 50/50 for me), which Richards had to give (Donald had him and he knew it, that is why kicked) then I don't think Carmont would have got away from McGuire anyway and cover, including Ryan Hall, were coming across. McGuire knew that the worst that could happen was a penalty 60m out and him ending up with a yellow card, but with seconds left on the clock it made no difference. He made the call and held Carmont back and got injured in the process (we think, but still rumours abound that maybe Riddell did something after the event!!!) , that is professional sport for you!

I disagree; Richards looked for the inside pass, saw Carmont get taken out, pointed at the incident and screamed at the ref, THEN kicked it. Therefore, he kicked because his option for the inside pass had been removed by McGuire's cheating.

He did look inside for Carmont and the inside pass but when did he have time to point and scream at the ref... are you dreaming this now? McGuire did take Carmont out and he was clearly the only option Richards had, other than a kick, because Donald most probably had him and he knew it. I agree McGuire totally removed that option! That is what I had said isn't it? I then made comment that the Carmont option was by no way a nailed on and had it gone to Carmont I still don't think he would have got away from McGuire and cover, with Hall coming across in particular.

Did you read my post????

Afraid you should look at it again because Bren2k is totally correct and also to put your Hall cover to bed, steaming up on the shoulder of Carmont was Sam Tomkins (unless he would have been taken out as well).
I don't really give a toss but it would be lovely to see it happen again at Headingley in a couple of weeks only the other way round. Then we can see what your opinion would be!

I did read your post, hence the reply.

I don't think I dreamt the sequence of events but equally, I didn't watch it through Whino tinted spectacles; having said that, I dislike intensely the type of rugby that Leeds play and in particular McGuire, so I'm not exactly neutral.

Tell you what - I'm watching it again now in glorious HD; I'll pay special attention to the incident in question and report my findings.

Okay?????

My opinion would be the same as it is here, I would expect a whole host of other Wigan or Leeds players to have done exactly the same thing as McGuire did! Are you guys not reading my posts? My opinion would also be that whomever committed said offence be penalised and shown a yellow card. That is what the rules say and that is indeed what should have happened last night. However it didn't, McGuire didn't get penalised, Alibert & Bentham chose to penalise Donald instead, giving Wigan a better opportunity to win the game, than they would have otherwise got, so in that respect Wigan (or in you how would you feel in two weeks time) or Leeds could have no argument whatsoever! We will never know if Wigan would or not would have scored, I just felt that they wouldn't have but that is my opinion, but you can think otherwise.

McGuire chose to and committed a professional foul that removed that as an option and Leeds were (sort of) penalised accordingly. Wigan were not really robbed of anything because the outcome was (again, sort of) correct in accordance with rules. Wigan had a choice and they chose to take a kick at goal, they missed, which meant they lost!

Do you mean would I be gutted, of course I would, but I would take a long hard look at why my team had not been able to get far enough in front to win the game and make this irrelevant. In Wigan's case, and I am sure they are asking themselves this, this morning, why did we conceded a 14 point lead, why when had a 9-5 penalty count in our favour (4 - 1 in the second half) where we unable to go on and win, why did Richards miss another two opportunities to win the game.... but of course, it is all McGuire fault Wigan lost, the other 79 mins and 20 seconds counted for nothing?

But I agree with everything you said mate (other than the pointing and screaming at the ref bit, but having been there maybe I am wrong) that is why I was asking if you has read my post?

If you dislike McGuire you really must not like Sam Tomkins then?

Just watched it again and I can confirm that it certainly wasn't a dream - I had it spot on; Richards looks inside, sees Carmont get taken out and points with the ball carrying hand, screaming at the ref. By then, he's slowed down and shaped for the inside pass and that's what allowed Donald to catch him.

Good argument for a penalty try in my opinion, since Wigan had Carmont placed for the pass and Tomkins steaming up behind him.

You're right of course that it doesn't change anything; I just don't like to see the sport being played in this spirit.

Tomkins was nearer the centre of the field asking for the kick in behind, towards him.

HTH

cant give a penalty try that far out, as much as i want one to have been given, becuase you have to be 100% certain that he would have scored. and at the lafway line how can you.

I'm afraid you're wrong about that - this, from the RFL rule book:

Err no he is not, the distance does not matter correct, but he and the laws use the term WOULD have been scored not, may have been scored, perhaps scored, possibly scored, it says WOULD have been scored!

Now, even the most myopic Wigan supporter can not say that they were definitely going to score and that is seals point, the distance, defensive cover and the fact the Richards had to pass the ball meant this was never 100% a score. If McGuire had not held Carmont back he might still have failed to take Richards pass in mate, so it was never a penalty try in a million years... sorry, you must see that?

Penalty tries are very rarely given because in most situations there is generally some doubt and now even more so after Diskin was awarded a penalty try at Bradford (quite rightly according to the laws at the time) as he had the ball stolen in the act of putting the ball down, and that only now leads to a penalty, so even more rare. A player tripping someone short of the line is one I have seen before and also a high tackle leading to the player dropping the ball just as he was going over the line (Wigan v Manly in an early WCC IIRC) but that is about it!

I'm not necessarily advocating that it [ushould[/u have been a penalty try, although I do believe there was an argument for it. I agree though, they're very rarely awarded.



You omit to notice however that the rule also says "in his opinion"; a ref could have concluded that, in his opinion, the try was on; certainly Wigan players were getting into position and I don't think the cover was as comprehensive as you indicated in an earlier post.

In the cold light of day, I'm not as fussed about it as I may seem, I just have a real problem with the cynical cheating that is creeping into the game; McGuire now has 8 months to reflect, so maybe he'll think twice before throwing himself into a reckless, illegal tackle in future?

Yes he did make an accusation, he said, and I quote;







Sounds like an accusation to me

Bang goes my theory, ah well. Man enough to admit I was wrong, but he has paid an heavy price. www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 93,00.html

Bang goes my theory, ah well. Man enough to admit I was wrong, but he has paid an heavy price. www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 93,00.html

Not good



I met McGuire once and he was a sound lad. I dont care who he plays for, wishing injury on any
player is totally wrong.

Hope he recovers soon.

has anybody been charged by the rfl for the incident or was it caused by deliberate attempt to foul another player? don't like long term injuries and he has been playing well but it was caused by his deliberate foul play!

As much as I can't stand wigan as a team, I actually felt very sorry for them last night after falling fould to Leeds' crass and diabolical tactics. All that motley crue are just a disgusting set of cheats. Hope they get bitten on the backside and pretty hard in two week's time!!

The thing I dont understand is that any player from any club in the same position as McGuire last night would have done exactly the same..............and if they hadnt the same fans who are creating about "cheating" would be blasting their own player for not "cheating"

yes can remember Kevin Henderson interfering with play when BJ ran in a try against cas it did get canceled, the cheating sod

happy now

Cheats never prosper...........so they tell me

I owe you an apology, he does indeed point and shout at Uncle Albert, watched it back myself and you are right.

I also want to add that I don't condone Danny's actions but simply state that I understand why he did it and why the list of SL players from all clubs that would have indeed chosen to do exactly the same is very, very long and to think otherwise is foolish IMO.

I am not sure that cynical cheating is creeping onto the game that much, but we must remember that now we are a full-time sport that players will make these sort of calls a little more often as their living depends on it. To be fair, I have bigger issues from a moral and 'spirit of the game' perspective with Sam Tomkins deliberately trapping tacklers arms under the ball in order to solicit a penalty. He did it twice in this game and has been doing it all season... clearly knowingly and with that intent from the outset. Danny made a call born out of desperation, in the dying seconds of the game, to try and prevent a supporting player getting to support his team mate thinking it might lose his club, the club that he makes his living playing for, from winning an important game!

Cheers for the apology; it wasn't necessary, but it's appreciated.

I don't agree with your suggestion that [umost[/u players would do what McGuire did; some would for sure, but judging by the relatively low number of blatant professional fouls we see each week, I'd say he's the exception rather than the rule.

As for Tomkins, I'd agree with you that what he does isn't pretty BUT - if you don't stick your arms in to try to dislodge the ball in the first place, he won't have the opportunity to trap them. Sinfield and McGuire both played into his hands by trying to force the ball out during the tackle by getting their arms between it and his body, and he exploited them ruthlessly. And for the record, Sinfield wasn't trapped in any way by the time Alibert blew it up - he had his arm laid across Tomkins chest/neck and made no attempt at all to clear the ruck; he was trying to extract a penalty by exposing Tomkins attempt to extract a penalty, and failed.

I'll have to agree to disagree with you in respect of the cynicism that's creeping into RL; that's the inevitable consequence of Sky money and the franchise system!