Think he would have been in Andy Kelly's team.

He was an England Academy 6 or 13, just had so much ability.

Was then played on the wing as his introduction to first team rugby.

Rumour is there was a clause in his contract that if he played X amount of games he would get a significant bonus.

As I understand it he played 1 game less than would have activated that payment and had sent on loan due to financial issues never to return.

I’ve been lucky enough to play with some outstanding players in my time. Played with and against players who went on to win World Cups. Ryan was up there on ability at a similar age.

Few years ago I was watching Super Rugby and come across a lad called Ryan Tongia, he looked class.

In the few games he played for us he seemed to have the X Factor, shame though he was playing in a poor side and looking at his career he never seems to stick around long wherever he goes.

Danny Cowling was another young lad that we wanted to keep at the club, I think he wanted to play part time to pursue studies or something but I thought he had some real potential at centre and was just one of those players that seemed to transition very well into the first team.

Think its fair out all of the players mentioned apart from gilmour and peacock (unless i missed a anyone)havent gone on and achieved anythingbi the game since keaving our youth which to shows there is a hell of a difference between junior rugby and the elite .ive watched alot of junior rugby over the last 8 or 9 years due to both my lads playing and ill be intrested to see if any lads i know /recognise go onto do anything game has i have seen sone good ones

Correct.

It is incredibly difficult to spot a potential pro, its incredibly easy to spot a talented player but they are not the same thing. You have to be able to turn a talent for a sport you enjoy at a youth level into a full-time job and that's not easy. The minute something becomes truly serious ie your career then being gifted isn't always enough.

There are players who are spotted really young and everybody knows they will make it because basically, they are men in boys bodies. Paul Sculthorpe, Andy Farrell and Kevin Sinfield
to name three but they are rare. In their cases, it would have taken a monumental set of cock-ups to stop them progressing. The rest are in degrees, Gareth Ellis had the mentality, what was in doubt was his ability and it happens the other way around.

I'm going to name drop here, I knew the Speak family very well in the '90s. Their son Andy played for Leeds, Cas and ourselves before dropping out of the limelight for good at a ridiculously young age. What some on here may know is that as a junior at Stanley Rangers he was for his age the most sort after player in the game. Incredibly strong, hard as nails and aggressive with an engine that wouldn't stop and great skill.

Leeds paid a fortune to sign him, I know this because I saw the green BMW he spent his signing fee on, a car he promptly crashed!

Years later I asked him why he stopped so young when everyone was certain he'd be an international. Being Andy he wasn't very direct but between the lines, he basically said it was too much like work but not the work he wanted to do and he just didn't enjoy it anymore. It just wasn't what he wanted to do. What he also didn't say but was clearly evident was that as a kid it had all come so easy to a 15-year-old with the body of a 21-year-old. Now things were more equal and to be fair that can drain you when you're used to being top dog.

It wasn't a lack of ticker or ability or anything like that, it simply wasn't what he wanted to do for the next 10 years, nobody saw that coming. I don't think it helped that he suffered some personal tragedies but many of us do. Deep down he just didn't want it whilst less talented players did. He was a landscape gardener with a young daughter I think the last time I saw him and seemed way happier and far more approachable, I think he made the right choice.

I can believe it what once was somthing you did for fun but it becomes a life...through buiness i know a guy who coached junior rugby at east leeds and as my lads played
Alot of junior rugby we used to discuss things and he alsways said he had players he knew would definitely make it in danny mcguire but he had many lads that he thought would go onto big things but didnt but at the opposite of that he talked about 1 lad that never looked like he would go anywhere in the game but went on to play a fare few sl games for few different clubs

Interesting this because over the last 3/4 years there has been a lot of moaning about different players not being offerred contracts by the Club and being let go, and yet I cant think of that many that have actually stayed in Super League after us, never mind actually going on to bigger and better things, which to me, shows someone is getting most of these calls correct?

Henry lined Robbie Paul up to join us but the board didn't want to take the risk.

Agree 100% players esp the yougs ones who have come through ie chris anakin or luke hooley to name a couple havent gone on and done anything amazing elsewhere and evsn at the other end of the table players like bjb and koppy 2 players i personally like and thought that they went ok esp bjb but they have only gone to championship clubs..think the problem with us mere fans we can tend to forget is that MC And JM have to keep in a budget i would also hazzard a guess and it is a genuine guess some players who have been let go are on more money than some that have been signed/ reatained which them enables other players to be signed/,retained.

There are so many factors in that step up from youth to senior rugby.

Development is a key factor and also youth coaching.

Most of the last GB side were quartile 3 or 4 in their school years, think it was nearly 70% and also most of them didn’t get scholarship at first round of selection, probably down to lack of physical development compared to some of their peers. Not getting scholarship can end budding careers there and then it they are not mentally prepared/mature enough to realise it isn’t a disaster for them, again, some can’t see that.

I’ve seen loads of super star kids not make it because they struggle to deal with not being the big fish anymore and they also lack the skill set as they have been so dominant in their junior development they haven’t needed them. I get so frustrated when I see teams rely on their star player who is usually a freak for his age just using him to win games rather than to actually develop his skill and improve him as a player. It is so short sighted and unfair on that player even though they don’t think it is at the time.

Embracing that work ethic when stepping up is again key. Too many think they are superstars when they step up when actually they need to realise they are the bottom of the pile again and need to work harder than everyone else in the room.

Above is why I like Aydin he is an absolute grafter.

Coincidently I was catching up with the player I played with and against who went on to achieve more than any other in his career. Chatting about my youngest son who has decided he wants a crack at getting Scholarship and long term ambitions of playing for Trinity in SL.

The lad in question went on to win a World Cup all be it in the union code but he was never the most talented player in our team as kids. Natural athlete but not the best skills.

His exact words were this and I’m quoting from his message directly -

Tell him there are no certainties in this world, but talent without work ethic will always fail. Work ethic with a little talent can go all the way.

It’s advise I try to impart but it holds more credibility coming from someone like him than my as a dad.

That for me separates those that have the potential. It’s a mentality thing. Embracing and understanding that rugby is your profession and continuing to treat it that way when all the other distractions come your way particularly when you first take that step up.

That moaning has been going on for years and in Ted's day there was occasionally an element of truth but only occasionally. Trinity fans have a martyr complex where suddenly any player or even coach who leaves suddenly becomes said martyr. Even though nobody seemed to rate any of the above until they left, very odd.

As you say the vast majority have disappeared, those that didn't were generally replaced by as good or better. People just can't seem to accept that some players just fit some teams/clubs.

The number of times I've heard people on here state 'this player will come back to haunt us' is endless. Yet in all our time in SL the only player who did was Gareth Ellis. Not just because he always played brilliantly but because it was so clear what we had let go but then we all knew that. Maybe Paul March and Westwood and one or two others gave us a tough time when they played us but only every now and then but you'd hardly call it a haunting.

Nope, despite the carping of fans, we've lost very few homegrown players who would have really have made a difference based on what they did post Trinity.

Can't argue with that but I will add some players just fall out of love with the game and don't want the pressure or the bashing. I never played past 17 but I knew by then it was starting to hurt and I wasn't interested. You need a certain disregard for you're physical and mental welfare to play at the top level for any length of time. That's what they mean by ticker I suspect.

Mark Colbeck, naturally gifted Rugby League player would have been international level.

I have actually sent a pic of the quote to my lad .he as ambitions to play the game at higheat level he can be it at amutuer or further up the ladder.so thank u for that.he is currently out daily working out with there been no club training and i hope it helps him.think one of biggest issue with junior rugby and its maybe somthing we may be abke to learn from down under is the amount of size difference in the junior game ive so the little lads are somtimes intimidated by the big lads which doesnt really teach either anything and even more so the big lads.think i woukd be right in saying its more a sized bases thing in Australia opposed to age...im sure your young one with right effort will be ok i know you say he may not always listen to you but he will knowing you will able teach him good things with your coaching role and where you went with your rugby.

I shared it with all the lads I coach as I believe it is a great lesson be it for sport or life in general.

It also is a mantra the lad lived by which gives it more gravitas and what got him to where he was, eventually captaining England on a few occasions.

I thankfully don’t coach my youngest and he is in good hands with his coaches however he is putting a bit too much pressure on himself to get scholarship.

He however has asked to do weights or field work everyday since reading it.

The size issue is always a funny one. I’m not for sizing them up as I think some of the players thrive on taking on the bigger lads as juniors but others as you rightfully say don’t. It’s a really difficult one though and in an ideal world junior rugby would be more focussed on developing all players than winning, but the reality is, and I’ve been guilty of it too sometimes the focus is on winning at some players expense/lack of opportunity and I’ve always felt fairly disappointed in myself when that has happened regardless of the win.

I still firmly believe all levels below SL should be about developing players/and good citizens not winning including Academy but it is easier said than done sometimes in the thick of it.

On the flip side of the coin I think sometimes fans expect too much of young players too soon there aren't that many Sam Tomkins around that can come in an instantly make an impact like he did.

Some home-grown players stick at there clubs as a squad player because it suits them and the club and they seem to go under the radar for even years until they start to make a real impact. Nathan Massey at Cas is a really good example of that, if he had left, I imagine he would have fizzled out, maybe play in the championship or even not be playing at all, and we would just put him in the same bracket as a lot of the names that crop up on this thread. As it plays out although not absolutely standout, Massey has turned out to be a good SL player and a key part of the Cas team. You can`t invest that sort of time in every young lad that has a bit of potential but if you did I think the majority of the time you would see a good SL standard player a few years down the line.

Thats where wakefield excell in for me there not intrested of whst league your in or how many trophies you won itd about how they can develop you as both player and a person bith on and off the pitch and games they want to win but it mord about what can be learnt and taking from the game rather than the result.

Its good ya young wanting to work hard in achieving what he wants but guess like all kids he needs to be out there playing hopefully it will happen soon.

That’s a good point.

There is also a lure of more money to drop down sometimes.

Players can be on a low wage in a full time environment or be senior player at a younger age picking up a higher payment to play part time and also fit a job in around it.

So many factors to it as highlighted in this thread, which is why I have so much admiration for anyone that makes it to the highest levels of our sport.

He is just moving into the 14s this year and after a year out who knows how he and the others will respond.

I do worry about my age group (16s) and the 15s more though.

I feel some cracking players who didn’t get scholarship may be lost to the pro game as they have developed so much physically in the time they have missed but may not get the opportunity to show it at an important time of their rugby pathway.

Deffo regarding 16s think there will be a few not returning i do worry weather my lad team end up with enough lads as numbers are dwindling i know or rather been told kippax whst would now be 16s folded.i do think the players who believe and want to go further themselves will return and they still slwsys have chance collage rugby can also help there few top plsyers out there who didnt get scholr like johnstone so there alwsyd hope

Kippax have gone and Oulton were on the verge however most of the lads that wanted to keep playing from Kippax joined them so at least they were not lost to the game.

Some cracking players in that 16s age group that didn’t get scholarship but probably would have been picked up last year had we had a league.

I’ve got 2 lads in my 16s who I’m sure would have pushing to get noticed last year. Both are still with me and both have trained like mad throughout however I worry what effect not playing will have had on them.

Yeah seen you play agsinst us guessing you mean brother of a current first teamer and the newish lad you got when 14s

I wasn’t to be honest as he is already on their radar.

Yes on the other one. Brand new to it and just a natural athlete Cas were all over him pre pandemic couldn’t believe he was brand new to the game (previously signed at Bradford City) and he has filled out over the last year without losing his pace/athleticism.

He needs games though, touch wood we are back in April.

Hopefully its much needed