Adam Trypass

It was Beanz that recommended Colin Sancturay after working with him part time at York.

I have long since been a critic of him after being involved in that set up.

In relation to American College football these guys are probably the best in the business, but the wages they are on even the up and coming ones are astronomical, way more than most long established conditioning coaches in rugby league.

I think you would find it nigh on impossible to get someone to come across that was any quality or even had potential quality for the wages on offer at most if not all SL clubs.

The main reason I left was because of the conditioning philosophy especially with the younger players with which I was involved.

Not if they can't find a job, also some may wish to travel. I don't reckon it's as difficult as you imagine and with a little effort and starting at a base level. Wages in the States are not as high as some would imagine things are just cheaper. Even some high schools in the States have better people than most SL clubs and I suspect we can compete on wages. We are not talking NFL or even top level Varsity here, let's be realistic.

I know you reckon you know your stuff but I don't reckon you know the going rate for these people. I only know because I watch Fox News for a laugh and it was one of their stories.

Lets get one of these bad boys; www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1i9yo.html

Lets get one of these bad boys; www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 1i9yo.html

In America the top collegiate guys earn a fortune and even the normal college guys get a massive salary, you must appreciate that even the lesser known colleges attract huge audiences far in excess of most pro sports apart from football in the uk.

There are also so many more jobs in the USA in this field, all colleges, schools, gyms and sports clubs employ conditioning coaches and the chances are anyone's that could be available are probably available because they have not cut the mustard.

I concentrated much of my research around NFL the books available are excellent and plentiful, and I feel that whilst these guys are top class at what they do, they are extremely specialist. They produce the perfect athletes functionally for the sport, but they condition purely anaerobic activity as that is all the sport requires. I think they would struggle with the details of conditioning athletes who require a blend of both anaerobic and aerobic conditioning.

I feel you would be better looking for someone from a track and field back ground as they have to generally work with a wider range of athletes requiring all aspects of different physical traits.

All conditioning has to be functional and if you cannot grasp every aspect of the game you are never going to get the best out of your players or prepare them for performance.

The AIS is a far more viable target for conditioning coaches though given they will know the game inside out and much of what they do will be influenced by the biggest sport in the country Rugby League. The British network is also improving with centres of excellence such as those in Sheffield, Manchester, Birmingham etc etc with the EIS.

Lets not forget you have had a conditioning coach with a doctorate in Sport and Exercise science, but his failure to grasp the basic concepts of the game has in my opinion cost the club dear.

Conditioning coaches probably spend more time with the players than any other coach. You need to recruit a guy who the players can relate to as all the knowledge in the world is good for nothing if you cannot actually coach.

Rugby Union has a far better network of up and coming conditioning coaches and learning/development pathways. Any club with limited funds to spend in this area may do very well to target a few of the guys in this development pathway who are hungry for an opportunity and have a grasp of the demands of the game.

Without shampoo, there can be no condintioner....

To a layman like myself, that looks a pretty convincing argument. I suppose you could argue that Trypass was more the NFL type of conditioner, bulking up players for a 60 minute game spread over something like 4 hours, whereas Sanctuary focuses more on the 2 x 40 minute duration without taking the impact into account as much. I know this is a crass generalisation, but hey. When you also take into account the fact that different positions require different conditioning, you begin to realise what a complex subject this is.

I think it's likelly that Beans and Col will go at the end of the season, but i think we just have to be a little bit fair and say that the players they are coaching are to be blunt mainly c\\**p, these were the same crew who coached us to our hghest ever SL points score when they worked with players who had talent.

Ultimately our league position is down to the players we recruited being not good enough on any level.

I agree with JK and that freshening things up after five years is a good idea. I've also heard that the players are sick of being beasted.....but then again some of them deserve it.

re the Younger players...dare i say it some of them need an attitude adjustment if they are to make it in super league and get the graft done and to live like professionals away from Belle Vue. Re bulking them up, that would be the opposite of the trend in the NRL
i'm always surprised at how little those guys weigh, but yet retaining the power...

In relation to the NRL I think the small and lean has kind of passed. If you look at the size of the NRL players, especially the backs in comparison to our guys they are far larger and athletic.

In very basic terms the larger the muscle the more strength and hence if converted correctly the more power it can produce. Get the balance of size and endurance right, ie work out how to get the guys big yet able to do the minutes whilst improving agility (a bi-product of power) and maintaining flexibility, then you will always be a success in rugby league from a conditioning point of view. Its obviously a very complex process and far easier said than done.

One thing is for sure you can never ever take your eye off the game and the style of player you are working with. Functionality is the key to producing a successful athlete regardless of the sport. They MUST be built to do the job they are put on the field to do.

Colin very much subscribes to the smaller and powerful but in todays game I do not think this is the way to go.

Geoff Evans was the best we had but let go by previous administration

And rightly so with the demands he made.

No he wasn't "let go" he was poached by Hudds. However if it suits your attempt to re-write the facts I'm sure Ted relieved him of his wallet and kicked his dog on the way out - no really

Whatever you say John as clearly this is another thing you are a world class expert on. I will write to Fox news telling them not to fill my head with such rubbish. A glut of over qualified Americans seeking a chance in Europe, how could such a thing occur.

Exactly. While he may have been worth the money, some of his demands were
ridiculous.
Hudds then paoched him as Vasty has stated. They had more cash than us, as simple as that.

You watch the propaganda channel you're gonna get your fingers burned

I love it, when I watch Fox for a while I'm still proud to be British - then I remember Jeremy Kyle.

People in America really do see the world like that, it's both funny and scary.

Given I worked in the field for over a decade across several sports with Professional athletes I will clearly have to bow to yours and Fox news expertise on such things.

I better burn all the text books in my library as they are clearly a waste of paper.

Perhaps you can get together with Fox news and publish some sort of guidance for us ignorant mere mortals on such matters



Certain things I am willing and enjoy debating with you on our different opinions, this is not one of them though as clearly Fox News has provided you with all the expertise anyone could wish to acquire.

I'd bet my house on it that were someone at Wigan suggesting the idea it would be great and all of a sudden very possible. I've said it before Jonh you are more transparent than glass - you are Phil Clake I win £5.

It's a good thread this, let's not drag it down and just agree to differ eh?

Well, I don't mind a differ trust me. But in the many years I've been on this forum I've never known him be anything but negative about our club all be it that on this occasion he couched it as the whole game. It's just tiresome, why not say it might work who knows - best of luck - just once it would be nice even if he doesn't mean it

i wonder whether its worth having two conditioners? a forwards and a backs conditioner. being as they are conditioned differently.....

have props and interchange hookers conditioned first alongside back row forwards. then have backs condition training after but have youre back row forwards take part in both as they have to go through more work as they are on for longer stints.

instead of having players able to manage 2 40 minute stints surely it would be a better idea for them to be able to last longer than 40 minutes (ie trained to operate fully for 50 minutes) for games where they have to do more work... or it goes to extra time. then they would be able to cope better... just a thought. i await to be shot down and told i dont know what im on about

A conditioner should be able to take the whole squad and assess there differences/weaknesses by pre testing and discussions with the head coach as to where he wants the players to be and what role they are requested to play. A back and a forward could need the same routine. If they have a specific weakness identified in testing.

It is probably best to group these players with similar training needs together so you can work in sub groups.

Eg I was once asked to increase the vertical jump height of a teams back 3 as they were all fairly short and it was seen as a weakness. There was also a hooker in the same team the coach required more explosive scoots from the play the ball, the basic flaw/requirement was lower leg power so these players were grouped together to work on this flaw.

essentially this is what i am saying. those who need certain training to be grouped together so they are focused on more, hopefully receiving greater benefits

Same guy can do this though if they are half decent. You don't need to focus on big guys and little guys like you do with skills.

I think we are also over stating the effects here by getting into the detail, interesting as that is.
It isn't the case that just because the props may be concentrating on bulking up and overall power, that they will simply burn out after 20 minutes. Fitness doesn't just focus on one area.

There are of course cases where someone like a Gledhill will need to get bigger simply to compete with people in his position, but that can be done without losing all his stamina to go the full game. It is as much about how you play the game as it is how fit you are. (I think someone has already said that). The wrestle techniques being used are as much about saving your own energy as using the attackers up. When you grip right but gradually lower them to the ground you are resting (especially with 3 doing it) and the rest of the team are also resting, whereas just throwing them to the floor allows the one runner to sap the energy of all the players then having to chase him down.
I'm certain that if Korki were playing in the back row (not that you would want him to) he could last the full game. He isn't piling into 3 defenders and trying to wrestle with them when playing out wide. So it isn't that he is unfit, we just want him to concentrate on a particular area.

So back to the point made above......if we want the team to better in fitness terms....we need someone who understands the game as much as they understand the science of the human body. In this area, we shouldn't be looking at someone from another sport to try and get a new angle. We need good basics and get a proven fittness/strength expert with experience of rugby league.
I'd actually do what Huddersfield did and find someone doing a good job and simply offer him money to do the same job with us. Even if it means playing with one less player in the squad because of the cash needed.