There is serious point on just who is flying into Heathrow.
The numbers of flights is down by 90% but, for one of the busiest airports in the world, that's an awful lot of people still coming and going (around 700,000), without any enforced isolation.
Of course, many of these are Britons returning home, after being stuck abroad and foreign nationals returning home after being stuck here but, it's a huge number and all this while most of us are stuck at home ??

That is what is happening with some.

Good, we’ve enough with our own s putting lives at risk without allowing people to travel in from Covid19 hot spots.

I've no doubt. However, that's not the point. I can guarantee you that you will find 20 versions of the said story as with many others regarding Coronavirus, all with a slant that suits their particular agenda, That's fine in the cut and thrust of real life. It will also be ok once all this is over. There is a time and a place and now isn't it.

The conceit seems to be amongst the press and a lot of people, in general, is that they are keeping the Government on its toes and holding it to account a sort of crusading for the public. This IMHO it shows arrogance or a sense of attention-seeking that I don't like and I feel to be unhelpful and dishonest.

I don't say this to defend Ministers of Civil Servants, I say it because virtually nobody is an expert on this subject and even those who have until now only ever dealt in hypotheticals. Yet now led by the tiresome Piers Morgan they are all expert and have all the answers and expect a huge government apparatus to be able to adjust to their pet theories instantly.

It's overused but now is the time for solidarity and that include the FACT that we have to go with those in charge under the assumption that they are doing their best There must be a sound reason why people are still entering the country, it may not be a reason you approve of but that's why we have governments, people who are willing to make decisions. Ever been to a meeting where the chair asks the audience their opinion? I have and often there is a wall of silence. People chelp a lot but when given the chance they rarely contribute.

There is something unpleasant about most politicians, however, as yet I'm not aware of an alternative.

We could run the country X-Factor style but I have seen the way the general public seem to vote I don't think that's a great idea.

So IMO and it's only my opinion in extraordinary times like this the press needs to be reigned in and stories need to be stringently checked, not censored but checked for accuracy. That's not reducing free speech, it's reducing false information by having to justify what's been printed. This is what happened in WW2 and our democracy seemed to survive.

As for the story, it seems true, the context however is not, because I still don't know the reason why.

A very good and well reasoned post, summed up perfectly for me, well said

No, I don’t read the newspapers, I listen to TV and radio news and current affairs programs. Just been listening to live tv broadcast of health committee meeting, the subject of not screening incoming travelers was brought up by Yvette Cooper, Mat Hancock’s reply was strange, it went along the lines of, testing wasn’t worth doing because there’s already a huge number of confirmed virus cases already in the country.

Instead of "it went along the lines of...", why don't you post the transcript of his actual answer?

Or won't that fit with your political agenda?

I watched the whole thing and found him to be extremely well briefed (which surprised me massively!!).

Decent post FC, however, the point that I was trying to make is that, as a nation we were horribly slow in controlling the movement of people, a few weeks behind France, Germany, Spain and of course Italy and even now, there are 100,000's of people coming and going "freely".

The people on affected cruise liners come back to the UK and are forced into isolation and yet there are 700,000 landing at Heathrow and going on there way "unchecked".

Of course, we have no choice of government but, equally, in a democracy, we are all allowed to question what may be wrong and compliment what may be being done well.
FWIW, I think that the people of the UK have responded to the crisis very well and the vast, vast majority are doing the right things, with some being exceptional and that is as good as it can be.

However, it is absolutely right to question those in charge, just as much in the bad times as it is in the good.

As for the press, most of the Newspapers are awful, from the "red tops" to the broadsheets, with their owners largely beyond reproach and yet they create a narrative that we are almost forced to follow.

I don’t have a political agenda, I’ve voted conservatives last few elections, and been supportive of action taken re virus, but I find it difficult to support this action regarding incoming flights etc. You and I, have a difference of opinion. Nothing to do with political agendas.

They're all part of the same group think and attended the same private schools and have been filtered through the same system. They all have the same ideological prejudices and all work within the same narrow parameters of what is considered acceptable opinion. There's not much difference between newspapers, radio or tv news affairs besides the colour of the suit they are wearing. We live under a system of huge propaganda and coercion. Most people will never know that they don't know what is going on.

With regards to the coronavirus it is obvious that there are mistakes (if you want to call them mistakes - some might say that it's a deliberate choice) being made left, right and centre and that is because it isn't beneficial in the short term for capitalists to create long term solutions to a pandemic when they are interested in paying their stockholders huge profits. After the SARS epidemic in 2003 (which was a coronavirus) there has been an age of time and lots of research into animal coronaviruses and of course the scientific community has known of the dangers this posed to human life and society. Understanding this isn't enough. Of course scientists UNDERSTOOD this could happen - so who is to blame here? The scientists? Of course not. Drug companies had the opportunity to do something - of course they didn't as this does not follow capitalist logic i.e. it's not their problem. Somebody's got to pay for it and why should they? So the alternative is the government. Well, the government is there to be the solution when the private sector is in trouble - that's well understood - but if it's just when the public needs something then the why should the government get involved?

Let's take the Trump as an example just for starters. USAID had a program detecting viruses that exist in animal populations that are getting closer to contact with humans because of habitat destruction and global warming. They were identifying thousands of potential viruses and working in China as well as in the US. Trump disbanded the project in October 2019. It's not in their interest to fund programmes that benefit the public if it comes at significant cost. Of course in terms of looking to the future and building our future our governments are vastly subidising the fossil fuel indistries despite them driving us to ecological catastrophe because it's well understood that short-term shareholder's profits are by far the short term priority as opposed to long term health.

Another examole being the production of ventilators. The system we live under means there isn't a surplus of ventilators in case of a catastrophe of course the govenrment could produce more ventilators to make sure that there are enough in the event of a pamdemic but again, this is not in the financial interest of businesses. There was an example in the Obama administration where after the Ebola pandemic the US government contracted a company to produce high quality low-cost ventilators however this company was bought out by another company who was competing with their own brand of ventilators and they tore up the contract with the government on the basis that it wasn't profitable enough.

The question is: what will the public do about it? The answer: not a lot if they think watching the BBC news at 6 will actually provide them with any knowledge of what is actually happening in the world.

If people think the government have done a good job then i'd suggest they're not really aware of what is happening. Which isn't necessarily their fault but they need to do research outside of listening to BBC radio 2 or the guardian (by all means read those things as well - I'm not saying they're compeltely useless because they're not). There has long been things governments could do to help the human population in the event of a pandemic - it's just not in their interest to do so in the short term.

It's not necessarily even about party politics. It's about the overall economic structure of our societies and where those at the tops priorities lie.

A number of points raised but sadly not well made and lacking in facts that could support your outlook. Possibly following one theme rather than weaving several together would get your point across.

If anyone was harbouring any lingering doubts that FC is Vastman - this should put paid to it; because Vasty, for all his faults, would never preach this kind of lickspittle, cap-doffing servility to a Govt and MSM who decide what is acceptable, and spoon-feed it to us by a process of organised dishonesty, patronage and stenography, all based on the interests of their non-dom billionaire owners.

Suffice it to say, I couldn't disagree more; question everything, get your news from many sources and never, ever believe anything you read or hear in any mainstream media without asking yourself who is saying it, why they're saying it and what vested interests are they serving.

This is a non-party political point btw - before anyone starts bleating.

Whereas this reply is just flowing with explanation and facts. What is it that you disagree with, Rick, in terms of fact or point? Although your reply is a great example of the level of discussion we now have amongst the general public in this country.

Itsva total shambles . It seems to me you can work and travel on public transport in the thousands unless your a cafe restraunts pub or nightclub.
Its crazy when you look at the coverage on tv of people traveling on the underground.
When the figures finaly get released it will be onteresting to see how many fatalities actually continued to work on non fromt line positions.
People are traveling every day from London to Aylesbury for the HS2 project and picking work colleagues up on the way.
ITS NOT A LOCK DOWN OR ANYTHING LIKE IT.

The best, and most well thought out and presented post I've read on this Forum in a long, long time. Well said Adam

Great post Adam.
The similarity between SARS and Corona Virus is unfortunately so close.
SARS was "controlled" in a sense, whereas Corona has not been for whatever reason and I don't want to get into politics as I don't do politics.
I suppose we could look at the the animal-human contamination, which is there.
However, I disagree re Ventilators.
I work for a medical company and I can state as a fact, they are produced as per demand. There has never been a "surplus" of them.
For example, if Barnsley Hospital ITU wanted x10, chances are they would be on the shelf ready.
However, if they wanted x25 that may be a slight issue - and I have seen this scenario in January for another hospital who had the money and ordered them.
Cheers

That was exactly my point. You're right that there isn't a surplus of them - that's because it isn't profitable to have a surplus of them which is why when there is an emergency we are not equipped. The system is totally dictated to by market priniples in the short term which means there is no long term planning for a catastrophe. Profit is put before the population.

I have not cited anything that needs backing up. I have commented on your post, as an example of what I was referring to perhaps the assertion regarding ventilators and the claimed takeover and cancelling of a contract can you provide details to support that, perhaps the names of the two companies involved.

Quote ="RickK"I have not cited anything that needs backing up. I have commented on your post, as an example of what I was referring to perhaps the assertion regarding ventilators and the claimed takeover and cancelling of a contract can you provide details to support that, perhaps the names of the two companies involved.'" https://globalcompetitionreview.com/art ... n%E2%80%9D I'd leave footnotes for every assertion I make but I think you'd acknowledge it would be quite time consuming. Your initial post didn't outline what you just said. If all you wanted was the footnote, I would have given you it in my response. You can have the other as well https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019 ... eparedness or here's the new york times https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/heal ... ruses.html The interesting thing here is that A) i wonder if other assertions would be asked to be backed up in such a way (they should always be backed up I wouldn't dispute that) if I was just repeating conventional thought and B) it's interesting that most people wouldn't know about these things if some idiot with too much time on his hands had not posted them. A great example of how our media are failing the population. As we all know now, Trump has gone on to cut the funding of the WHO at a time of global pandemic. The only words to describe it are sheer lunacy.

Quote ="RickK"I have not cited anything that needs backing up. I have commented on your post, as an example of what I was referring to perhaps the assertion regarding ventilators and the claimed takeover and cancelling of a contract can you provide details to support that, perhaps the names of the two companies involved.'" https://globalcompetitionreview.com/art ... n%E2%80%9D I'd leave footnotes for every assertion I make but I think you'd acknowledge it would be quite time consuming. Your initial post didn't outline what you just said. If all you wanted was the footnote, I would have given you it in my response. You can have the other as well https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019 ... eparedness or here's the new york times https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/25/heal ... ruses.html The interesting thing here is that A) i wonder if other assertions would be asked to be backed up in such a way (they should always be backed up I wouldn't dispute that) if I was just repeating conventional thought and B) it's interesting that most people wouldn't know about these things if some idiot with too much time on his hands had not posted them. A great example of how our media are failing the population. As we all know now, Trump has gone on to cut the funding of the WHO at a time of global pandemic. The only words to describe it are sheer lunacy.

Its not down profit - its down to demand.
There would be no point in a company having 50 vents on the shelf as the money tied into that - around £1m - may not be recouped through sales.
A totally understandable business outlook.

I worked for a well known confectionery firm in Cas, I can’t remember the exact reasoning but every twelve months we had a purge of the engineering stores and anything mechanical that hadn’t been used in the last 12 months was immediately scrapped, I’m not sure if it wasn’t a tax thing, the powers that be said it was more expensive to store the items than buy new items, something barmy like that.

You're kind of making my point for me. You're correct in what you are saying. That 1m is seen as a waste in a business sense. No one disputes [ithat[/i. But because it is seen as a waste in a business sense when you have a pandemic like such it hampers your ability to fight it as businesses have not prepared for it and nor are they interested in preparing for it. There is no long term planning - only a focus on the short term (you don't want me to call it profit or profitability) so we can call it whatever you like - the principle remains the same. This is due to how society has been structured by those whose interests it serves as a priority.

What's the solution in a world pandemic then? Just a question that was asked to the shadow health secretary today who couldn't give an answer. 84 tons coming fro Turkey tomorrow Burberry's retooled their factory at CAS every country vying for PPE so what's the answer? Loads of people are making scrubs etc a massive amount is needed an amount clearly outstripping supply on a global basis. I am no expert on gowns scrubs etc but the rate this kit is being used it's inevitable supply chains will be strained.

Well said, RWB...as I said on a previous thread a few weeks ago, it is time for us all to pull together now the chips are well and truly down, not try and gain political brownie points just for the hell of it...#POINTLESS

TBH it doesnt matter what product it is regarding the NHS. Whether it be Vents, Gowns, Masks, etc.
For example, there are around 6 companies that sell surgical gowns. Due to the current situation there aren't any.
They cant increase production.
They are made in China.
It will always be "supply and demand" having worked in this for 20yrs that's how it always has been and always will.