Great analysis Trojan.
The only thing I'd add, is if Hall and Langi got things wrong between them, Glen the SR did too.
Hall made the wrong decisions but it would have been easier for him if he had numbers inside rather than seeing some gaps.

Unfortunately these things are only solved by drills in training and more game time.

I said after the Salford game that Gaskell put in the worst full back performance I'd ever seen, yet here he is again. He's not quick enough for a full back. He is never anywhere near the ball.

Lineham was always worth a go, but perhaps he only works in a good side, in that he is a winger that is good at barging over from not far out, but relying on him to defend is expecting too much. I've never thought of him as quick.

Taking a longer view, the result might be a good thing. If Wigan had been at half-pace, perhaps we wouldn't recognise the need to do something about ourselves. Getting hammered might make things buck up a little. There was a reboot mid-season last year that got us out of trouble, and I think Mash was part of that.

I hark back always to the James Webster year, where we just dodged relegation. After two games we were flying, then won nothing for ages. Leeds were stinkers this time last year and got to the Grand Final.

I'm happy to wait for the response before I hit the panic button. But yes, I'll be more interested in the Leigh results than any other team.

Our right side defence got absolutely mullered.
Having said that, Wigan were running red hot and the late changes will have caused us some issues.
However, 60 - 0 is one hell of a beating.

Maybe, Reece Lyne isn't a bad centre after all ?

Fans rightly banging on about players leaving and not filling the voids left , but let’s not forget two of our best players either didn’t play or had very little impact last season , and that’s Tupou and Johnstone . Big Dave up front is a big loss as he could rally the troops and fans alike , but I have to say I feel if we have all the pieces of the jigsaw in the correct places at the same time we will be competitive this season , it’s when a few pieces of that jigsaw go missing that things can and do go disastrously wrong

Miller is a big miss too imo !!

It’s too soon to hit the panic button but it seems some changes have to be made.
Sorry but I only rate Gaskell as a centre and an emergency one at that. He’s not quick enough for FB and iMO not good enough for SO , he alone isn’t to blame though there’s something very wrong with our defence and the players and coaches are the ones to sort that out!

The really worrying aspect is that many fans believe that we have not replaced those that have gone with better players and last years "better" players only managed a 10th spot finish, which included a massively under performing Wire side.

IF we are weaker than the 2022 Trinity side, 11th spot would be a good finish

Butterfield is nowhere near ready for SL. As bad as Gaskell was, he's head and shoulders above him.

I’d was very happy with the prospect of an 11th before a ball was kicked this season. I’d be ecstatic if we got it now.

And sadly the owners would’ve been too.

I was surprised too. With people mentioning Lineham I was surprised that Lineham actually got left in some horrid situations through no or little fault of his own.

I like Hall and he will be a class centre but his naivety was on show and he made wrong decisions and choices vs Wigan. If he learns from them and improves from it then that’s all we ask.

Gaskell is just clearly not a full back plain and simple. Even at 6 he’s suspect for a pivotal role (for example vs Catalans kicking it out of play on last). Not every player is cut out to be a pivot and Gaskell just isn’t. That’s no slight on his effort but he’s only played well at centre so if we have any sense that’s where he will play unless emergency requires he fills in.

The issue is we haven’t recruited a quality 6 but I do see some potential in Smith. He will likely need a few games though.

It’s going to take some serious reviewing by the coaching team and some individual and group sessions to address what’s going wrong and how it gets fixed. There will also need to be difficult conversations. I’m sure Gaskell will want to give his all and be pushing to show he can do it at halfback but the coach sometimes has to make the call.

I still want to believe in this group of players though and the coach but we must come out and smash Hudds to bits when they rock up at Belle Vue.

And Batchelor

Gaskell is getting some stick weather its justified or not i dont know but with max out and its not short term by all accounts but who do we have to play there other than gaskell, normally you may be able to cover with a winger but i just dont see it

You confuse me. You talk abput 'we' on this forum and 'we' on the Wigan forum!

We've dual registered him

Agree about Gaskell ,Hall wil learn, but think you gone way over the top with smash Hudds Very worrying we are getting smashed 60 nil, says a lot about our defence ,but says more about our attack .That is with 2 or 3 players out ,not 7 or 8 like it use to be a few year ago .Lot poorer team than last year .

Hall will learn and there’s a class player in there.

Well we had 3 players playing out of position and Jowitt, Bowden, Hood and Crowther out injured along with losing Tanginoa after 5 minutes. 60 nil is poor but it’s not without contributory factors.

When I said smash Hudds I meant more in the players mentality and that they need to come out professional and with a high level of focus and channelled aggression.

It says alot about our edge defence and having g looked at the highlights in detail they are something that can be fixed quite quickly with guidance given to the right players.

It wasn’t great at all but it’s not unfixable all the same. Whether they fix it is another matter.

Watched the game on Trinity Tv this morning. A few things that stuck out to me were.

Our defensive line speed and kick chase speed is well off the pace, like last week. We look really sluggish with no intensity. We look like a team that’s backing up from playing a day before compared to Wigan who looked fresh with real purpose and intent.

Kicking game is still really poor, we fail to find any momentum, which is also heightened with our poor kick chase. Wigan constantly starting out their sets in their own 30 where as we were pinned down because of their excellent kick and intensity. We didn’t have a set on their line until the 50th minute which is abysmal. The poor kick chase intensity is suicide against a team containing Field, French and Marshall.

Wigan were clinical but they simply were made to look excellent due to our own lack of intensity and real issues outside in defence. The blow out score was simply from individual defending errors and clear lack of communication from Wigan throwing pretty simple attacking shapes at our edges. Hall and Taufua constantly jamming in leaving Lineham and Murphy 2 on 1 for easy walk ins. Really really poor.

Proctor was immense in the middle, as were Pitt’s and Whitbread. Battye carried well as did Butler. Proctor just looked bemused at the calamity that was happening outside of him as did Pitt’s just constantly shaking their heads after they just strolled in time and time again.

For me it’s our intensity that’s the real worry. Apart from the odd few, we look knackered and lethargic especially our line speed and kick chase. Wigan was always going to be a tough place to go, but a lot of championship teams would of scored and conceded less than that on the day.

That is bang on. If you want the ball in good position you have to do the tough stuff in defence and roll up sleeves! The intensity and aggression isn’t there and it needs to be. It’s not as if the players can’t do it. That second half against Fev we came out and the intensity was excellent and we completely snuffed out Fev in defence and Fev had no answer at all for it (just like we don’t).

Sometimes the best way is to just copy what others are doing right! If the defensive intensity and line moving up is causing us issues then let’s take it and put it into action and use instead of the hang off approach to defence we currently have.

Right down to every player they should want to be stronger and better than their opposite number and dominate them, that’s all about bringing in a competitive nature too.

It’s not unfixable but there’s no substitute for rolling the sleeves up and making sure the effort is directed at the actual issue.

I agree about Proctor, Pitts etc and Langi too. They were very good in defence and it must be disheartening seeing it collapse outside you. But it’s pro sport and they are adults, get it sorted.

We don’t need to try fix everything in one week but let’s fix 1/2 things at a time starting with the intensity and the edge defence. Then when we are putting ourselves in better positions we can look at improved kick chasing and ending our sets better.

Sometimes though you copy what other successful teams are doing right.

Really good point is that. The second half against Fev was like watching Wigan against us. Wigan constantly 3 men into the tackle, really intense. They were nothing flash, just executed against really poor defence on our edges. I’m pretty sure when they are sat in the video room it will be pretty dire watching. Worst thing for me is how knackered we look. It doesn’t look like the second game of the season, it looks like we’ve played week in week out throughout pre season. Strange.

Same problem as last season the middle is tackling but they are not dominating the ruck hence they are too compressed leaving the flanks exposed. It's ok praising the middle but they are exposing the flanks.

They look knackered. They were so compressed.

Not in this case. Read my more detailed post further on. I spent a good 45 minutes at least slowing down/pausing every try and analysing where the issues were. The issues are very much the edges and not middles (more specifically the centres). It’s different to last season but still a very real issue all the same.

I’m praising the middle for the fact they aren’t conceding tries or breaks. But I’m not praising them for their yard gains etc. I’m not quite sure what we expect though when we are constantly coming out from deep and kicking on the 30/40.

The middle aren’t too compressed imho and the highlights prove that no forward is at fault for any of those tries vs Wigan. Almost every Wigan try we had enough players to deal with the attack because the middles and second rows had done their jobs but for poor decision making from the centres to leave the wingers facing 2/3 on 1 situations.

Our edge defence has been garbage for ten years. Opposing wingers have had free run ins forever and a day. The last three coaches didn’t seem able to sort it. After sixty years, I’m taking a break. Sitting out in freezing cold and rain watching unopposed rugby is not for me.

Well we agree to disagree