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Quote ="dboy"Floodlights are coming out anyway - unless the suggestion is to "re-lamp" the existing towers???
A Q for tomorrow...'"
4th bullet point, 'An upgrade of the existing floodlights to latest LED technology'
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/blog/2020/ ... velopment/ |
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Quote ="dboy"Floodlights are coming out anyway - unless the suggestion is to "re-lamp" the existing towers???
A Q for tomorrow...'"
4th bullet point, 'An upgrade of the existing floodlights to latest LED technology'
https://wakefieldtrinity.com/blog/2020/ ... velopment/ | |
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That just means they're sending Connor down to Screwfix to buy some LED bulbs !!!
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| Quote ="FIL"That just means they're sending Connor down to Screwfix to buy some LED bulbs !!!'"
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Western terrace is a bigger footprint than it looks. Pitch doesn’t need moving. Ideally we’d replace Benidorm flats with a stand for away fans and western stand with media facilities for home fans.
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| Quote ="BarnsleyGull"If memory serves, JM said that there would a hospitality suite in the East stand, not boxes.
When this opens, maybe knock the flats down and replace it with boxes in that new build??'"
Boxes are getting a thing of the past, most new corporate facilities don’t seem to have separate boxes anymore. |
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| Indulge me, my idea of what we might end up with.
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| Quote ="Wakefield City"Western terrace is a bigger footprint than it looks. Pitch doesn’t need moving. Ideally we’d replace Benidorm flats with a stand for away fans and western stand with media facilities for home fans.'"
It is but that's not the problem.
As someone who trust me has seen many plans, all rejected by WMDC for the western terrace, access is the issue, it has none. Trying to do anything other than terracing to the western terrace is an utter waste of time and money. It's best left for the away fans, just smarter with a proper roof. The potential is the south stand, which certainly does have a far bigger footprint than you think and does have access and is pretty much a blank canvas if you knock the flats down. |
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| Quote ="vastman"It is but that's not the problem.
As someone who trust me has seen many plans, all rejected by WMDC for the western terrace, access is the issue, it has none. Trying to do anything other than terracing to the western terrace is an utter waste of time and money. It's best left for the away fans, just smarter with a proper roof. The potential is the south stand, which certainly does have a far bigger footprint than you think and does have access and is pretty much a blank canvas if you knock the flats down.'"
What plans were these? can’t remember anything submitted since the west stand was knocked down. What do you mean by access? Been to many stadium football and rugby that seem to have less access than the west side of Belle Vue.
Up the Trin |
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| Quote ="vastman"Indulge me, my idea of what we might end up with.
'"
Look good think we’d all be happy with that. I reckon 1st stage is East, North lights and pitch as planned. Then South and West would be Salford City FC style stands.
Up the Trin |
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I'm sure Snowie will know from his personal involvement a few years ago, but I seem to recall that the north terracing consisted of the BISON concrete pre-cast hollow floor slabs that consisted of about 25mm top and bottom thickness of concrete with a hollow core of approx. 100mm. Over the years of supporting the crowds the top thickness used to crack and subside exposing the void. Subsequently the voids were filled with poured concrete patching which over time tended to create an uneven surface,
I don't recall a wholesale replacement of the north terracing in my time of attending BV.
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It may be me but from the sketch drawings i see the car park is set/done ??, But cannot see it as an item in the list to Do ??
is the gym & training facilities for the players as per type we need for winter close season training ( which we borrow now) in the 2nd phase, we also need to have included a physio - surgery room for the club doctor & his staff to tend injuries etc, etc, but I see no mention in the listings, may be this can be in the questions posed ?
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| Quote ="Wakefield City"What plans were these? can’t remember anything submitted since the west stand was knocked down. What do you mean by access? Been to many stadium football and rugby that seem to have less access than the west side of Belle Vue.
Up the Trin'"
You won’t have done, they were in a draw at the club when I saw them in 2005. There were three versions dating from the late 80’s, up until the millennium, the latter were done as part of our SL application. I actually had to sign a confidentiality agreement to see them but I’m sure nobody cares now. They were never made public because they were never going to happen.
Anyway all were rejected. The main reasons were as follows.
1. Not enough access for emergency vehicles.
2. Poor general access and no parking.
3. Due to lack of space for facilities an unacceptable financial return for the outlay.
Even then the east and south stands were the obvious contenders for upgrading.
We all fondly remember the old west stand but let’s be honest it was ridiculously cramped underneath even by the standards of the day. It’s only suitable as a terrace unfortunately. Don’t see a problem with that myself.
As a matter of interest which ground have a stand that only has a narrow path behind two thirds of it. The only one I can think of is Cas which like BV is a relic. Like BV that terrace was built long before modern stadia regulations. I don’t make the rules, what is certain is that you can’t replace the west terrace like for like, ithe new structure would have to meet modern criteria.
This states that there must be unimpeded access for emergency vehicles including a fire tender. So it’s a minimum one way road. Added to that you’d need a pedestrian walkway as well. That starts to eat away a lot of space. |
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Are retail outlets, fast food premises etc still included in the scheme?
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Western Terrace would be best levelled and temporary stands put in for away fans, if not permanent, but open terracing.
One is that the TV gantry needs to be at that side and a roof would obscure it's views.
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| Quote ="dboy"Western Terrace would be best levelled and temporary stands put in for away fans, if not permanent, but open terracing.
One is that the TV gantry needs to be at that side and a roof would obscure it's views.'"
The roof wouldn’t obscure the view, that’s a bit of a myth. The problem with the Glover roof is that it’s not really high enough, that was the issue along with the extra cost for the full length that we couldn’t affords. If you look at Cas it’s similar but a bit higher and they get away with it and so could we.
Sky advised that it wasn’t ideal but they didn’t stop us, they are not that powerful, handy excuse in truth.
That said it’s a summer game and with cover for 2500 in the new stand and an increase to 3,500 in the north stand that’s adequate cover for the few rainy games. So I don’t think a roof over the west terrace is vital. |
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| Quote ="Redscat"I'm sure Snowie will know from his personal involvement a few years ago, but I seem to recall that the north terracing consisted of the BISON concrete pre-cast hollow floor slabs that consisted of about 25mm top and bottom thickness of concrete with a hollow core of approx. 100mm. Over the years of supporting the crowds the top thickness used to crack and subside exposing the void. Subsequently the voids were filled with poured concrete patching which over time tended to create an uneven surface,
I don't recall a wholesale replacement of the north terracing in my time of attending BV.'"
yes we did some pepper testing first with a long thin drill bit all around areas that was in need of attention to decide what we was dealing with and had no concerns with the depth on the west stand bar for the few near the toilet area in the corner, like vasty said it was fairly new compared to the rest,
the north stand was totally different matter as it went through in seconds meaning the anchoring bolts would of had nothing to adhere to, one or two just had the drill bit fell through once it had penetated the concrete the only option was to dig every post out as the east stand, had to laugh when TRB said it was no problem so I repied he could crack on with it then
I did at one time find some information with photos about when the north stand was developed, all of the concrete believe or not was laid by volunteers by hand  now that is moving mountains, not sure but I think its in the dreadnought book |
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| Quote ="vastman"You won’t have done, they were in a draw at the club when I saw them in 2005. There were three versions dating from the late 80’s, up until the millennium, the latter were done as part of our SL application. I actually had to sign a confidentiality agreement to see them but I’m sure nobody cares now. They were never made public because they were never going to happen.
Anyway all were rejected. The main reasons were as follows.
1. Not enough access for emergency vehicles.
2. Poor general access and no parking.
3. Due to lack of space for facilities an unacceptable financial return for the outlay.
Even then the east and south stands were the obvious contenders for upgrading.
We all fondly remember the old west stand but let’s be honest it was ridiculously cramped underneath even by the standards of the day. It’s only suitable as a terrace unfortunately. Don’t see a problem with that myself.
As a matter of interest which ground have a stand that only has a narrow path behind two thirds of it. The only one I can think of is Cas which like BV is a relic. Like BV that terrace was built long before modern stadia regulations. I don’t make the rules, what is certain is that you can’t replace the west terrace like for like, ithe new structure would have to meet modern criteria.
This states that there must be unimpeded access for emergency vehicles including a fire tender. So it’s a minimum one way road. Added to that you’d need a pedestrian walkway as well. That starts to eat away a lot of space.'"
Didn’t realise it went to planning and WMDC rejected them, should be in the public domain if that’s the case. Remember early 2000s talk of us buying the old wilderspoon main stand for the west side. Had to go through an alley underneath some terrace houses away end at Luton, no chance of getting emergency vehicles through there.
Up the Trin |
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| Quote ="vastman"The roof wouldn’t obscure the view, that’s a bit of a myth.'"
The gantry can't be lowered - it's already "flat", and permission couldn't be achieved for a roof of a height that would go above the gantry.
A roof at the permissible height would obscure the gantry sight lines.
This was covered in a fan's forum at BV, in the none too distant past.
It's not a myth; it's physics and planning permissions. |
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| Quote ="Wakefield City"Didn’t realise it went to planning and WMDC rejected them, should be in the public domain if that’s the case.'"
Never got to the public domain, as they never got as far as seeking permission.
The council planning officers advised they would never pass, so that was the end of those ideas. |
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Well it got people speculating . It is a damn mess and not expecting anything stupendous . Few tiers of safe terracing and a basic roof to to host away support.
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| Quote ="dboy"The gantry can't be lowered - it's already "flat", and permission couldn't be achieved for a roof of a height that would go above the gantry.
A roof at the permissible height would obscure the gantry sight lines.
This was covered in a fan's forum at BV, in the none too distant past.
It's not a myth; it's physics and planning permissions.'"
I remember and your right. We differ only in that you believe it and I don’t.
The myth I refer to was SKY saying no, they didn’t.
The roof at permissible height is incorrect imo. To me that the club was making excuses. Roughly speaking the height of the old west stand sets a historical precedent and that I know to be true.
Problem is the roofing used is technically temporary and that’s where the restriction is, the next size up so to speak was too pricy. Also the bit they did build is just as much in site lines as it would be full length, never really got that argument.
To be honest I don’t blame the club it was never vital, at the time it was just a fop. The roof has served its purpose. What I would be interested in is knowing the lifespan of these roofs, that I don’t know?
Anyway these are side issues, it’s just fair to say the west terrace is the most limited section of the ground. |
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| Quote ="Wakefield City"Didn’t realise it went to planning and WMDC rejected them, should be in the public domain if that’s the case. Remember early 2000s talk of us buying the old wilderspoon main stand for the west side. Had to go through an alley underneath some terrace houses away end at Luton, no chance of getting emergency vehicles through there.
Up the Trin'"
Never needed to go to public, these were feasibility studies, all rejected in advance so no point.
As for Luton you’re spot on and there are others but you’re missing the point.
These are stands that were built pre-regulations and thus have less strict criteria. The problem comes when you replace them. When you do that to have to meet modern standards, you can’t replace like for like. That’s one of the reasons Luton’s ground has barely been developed, that is a ground in a truly awfull position.
Sure you’ve been to York? Without wanting to patronise but do you think you’d be allowed to build the Shambles under modern planning? That’s the problem.
The only real solution would be if the council would close the path and we could buy the land and perhaps some of the adjoining garden land. However we are in ransom strip territory there, nightmare. |
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Quote ="Fishermanscap"Thought I'd start this so folk can add any updates they come across so as to keep folk as well informed as possible, pin it maybe mods?
I'll kick off with this I found on the net, it's the architect's own site and gives a few more pics and bits of info, not much but a bit. Enjoy
https://www.afl-architects.com/news/pla ... evelopment'"
Just got around to reading the information by the architect from the link above.
I
Phase 1
The new East Stand will become an impactful focal point, with a FanZone and landscaped car parking creating a sense of arrival for travelling fans. An improved concourse will wrap around the eastern side of the new stand, facilitating safe and fully accessible movement for all visitors.
In addition to the East Stand, the plans also outline further works to increase the stadium capacity from 7,258 to a total of 8,866. The North Stand, which is currently subject to health and safety restrictions, will be refurbished to increase capacity from a restricted 1,500 capacity up to 3,500 capacity. Existing floodlights will be upgraded to the latest LED technology and a 4G pitch installed for all weather use by both club and the community.
Phase 2
Bringing together both club and the Wakefield Trinity Community Trust, phase two of the plans will see the refurbishment of the Rollin Shack. This will provide improved, multi-functional facilities to better engage with local residents. The proposals outline several provisions including a health and fitness suite, a strength and conditioning gym, a studio, learning spaces, meeting rooms, function lounge, club retails, café and changing facilities.
These plans set out a broader vision for the stadium and its place within the Belle Vue community, bringing substantial social, environmental and economic benefits. With these new facilities, the Trust will meet its aims to assist in the regeneration of the area through engagement activities and the promotion of social inclusion.
I can’t decide if this company will only be involved in phase 1 and 2, and not the complete stadium. Is it possible, that we only have funding for phase 1&2, therefore nothing drawn up for West and South side.
I think the details are a bit sketchy at the moment. JM said on Monday night, this a 12+ month build. Is that just for phase 1 or both 1&2?
Is it likely, that 1&2 together will take 2 years, meaning it will be 2024 at the earliest, before West and South ends can be considered for redevelopment?
In the previous Q&A, JM said things had to be scaled back, due to funding.
Perhaps I’m just a born pessimist, best news we’ve had for ages re Stadium, and I’m probably overthinking.
Anyone else think we need some more details, just for clarification? |
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Quote ="Fishermanscap"Thought I'd start this so folk can add any updates they come across so as to keep folk as well informed as possible, pin it maybe mods?
I'll kick off with this I found on the net, it's the architect's own site and gives a few more pics and bits of info, not much but a bit. Enjoy
https://www.afl-architects.com/news/pla ... evelopment'"
Just got around to reading the information by the architect from the link above.
I
Phase 1
The new East Stand will become an impactful focal point, with a FanZone and landscaped car parking creating a sense of arrival for travelling fans. An improved concourse will wrap around the eastern side of the new stand, facilitating safe and fully accessible movement for all visitors.
In addition to the East Stand, the plans also outline further works to increase the stadium capacity from 7,258 to a total of 8,866. The North Stand, which is currently subject to health and safety restrictions, will be refurbished to increase capacity from a restricted 1,500 capacity up to 3,500 capacity. Existing floodlights will be upgraded to the latest LED technology and a 4G pitch installed for all weather use by both club and the community.
Phase 2
Bringing together both club and the Wakefield Trinity Community Trust, phase two of the plans will see the refurbishment of the Rollin Shack. This will provide improved, multi-functional facilities to better engage with local residents. The proposals outline several provisions including a health and fitness suite, a strength and conditioning gym, a studio, learning spaces, meeting rooms, function lounge, club retails, café and changing facilities.
These plans set out a broader vision for the stadium and its place within the Belle Vue community, bringing substantial social, environmental and economic benefits. With these new facilities, the Trust will meet its aims to assist in the regeneration of the area through engagement activities and the promotion of social inclusion.
I can’t decide if this company will only be involved in phase 1 and 2, and not the complete stadium. Is it possible, that we only have funding for phase 1&2, therefore nothing drawn up for West and South side.
I think the details are a bit sketchy at the moment. JM said on Monday night, this a 12+ month build. Is that just for phase 1 or both 1&2?
Is it likely, that 1&2 together will take 2 years, meaning it will be 2024 at the earliest, before West and South ends can be considered for redevelopment?
In the previous Q&A, JM said things had to be scaled back, due to funding.
Perhaps I’m just a born pessimist, best news we’ve had for ages re Stadium, and I’m probably overthinking.
Anyone else think we need some more details, just for clarification? | |
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| This is such amazing news
The best news I’ve had all year in fact
I’m not sure we’ve ever got to the point where we’ve submitted plans before
I’ve seen artist impressions , maybe 3 lots now?
I’d like to go early and say the stand need naming after MC
I’m not sure I’m ready to believe it just yet
Is this really going to happen for us  |
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| Quote ="musson"
I’d like to go early and say the stand need naming after MC
'"
That would certainly feed the resident haters on the two rugby forums.
I suppose the sensible options would be a sponsorship naming or Neil Fox? |
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now that is moving mountains, not sure but I think its in the dreadnought book
