Oh Right so we've looked fit all season have we? my apologies.

Yes we have. Same as every other time this comes up.
It's ball control and excessive defending.

I still say better fitness would have won us more games. One thing that springs to mind is the amount of time Trinity have only played in fits & starts, hardly played for 80 Mins in any game this season surely down to fitness If were going to get penalised like we do we have to be fit to combat this

Trinity have been blown away/comfortably beaten in what 3 or 4 games this season. That to me suggests a team competing but not quite have the mental knowhow or ability to win the close games. They haven't look beat fitness wise other than the few games where we have been well beaten, but that could be leveled against most RL sides.

At some point in every season, Martin Clawson gets blamed for our results; interestingly, he never receives any plaudits when we win.

ok I respect your opinion on this, so lets pay the players more money so we pay up to the cap that should sort our league position then

you seemed to have contradicted your self ie the league table doesn't lie, Leeds are where they are because they have played crap few injuries yes but they are supposed to be a team that spends to the cap and be full of far better players in the ranks waiting, well its not looking too good for them is it, mention Leeds and you automatically expect them to be favourites well not any more, I see them as two points for the taking which we just failed to do, poor for the game but they are in a bad position that could see them being in the MPG which I expect them to win but boy is this going to be a game and a half

I keep hearing the name bogey team, we always seem to lose to them, well Huddersfield seems to give you a feeling as soon as you turn up we've lost, well I don't buy it to that either

we either change the mentality within or the club keeps just plodding along and the players except they are just not as good as the others

Come on snowie you know I wasn’t suggesting paying average players more, you sign better players because you spend more money which means some of your guaranteed starters now become decent squad players and allow you to rotate.

I am not contradicting myself re Leeds, they have been short of forwards especially front rowers for considerable parts of the season. Throw in Callum Watkins and it is not difficult to see that some of the close defeats they have had with a full squad available would have been wins and they would be in the 8.

I also acknowledged that they are not getting best value for money from their cap spend.

Comparing us with Catalans imo is wrong because quality wise they have a better 17 then us and that is largely due to the money they spent on assembling it.

Unfortunately, with our current situation whether we like it or not we have to accept that finishing top 8 3 years in a row is progress. Most of us on here have been supporting Wakey long enough to realise that achievement for what it is. Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

Do they? I very much believe Catalans are a teams of average players who are in outstanding form, it's not very different to what side started all the way back in round 1 and just look how different the performances have been.

Wrong IMO, they are a team full of talent that were massively under performing, for whatever reason they have now turned it around and look to be playing to there potential.

Fair point, probably was harsh for me to call them average however. I do not think they have a better 17 than us, much closer!

I would say 8 of our players are better than there; leaving 9 players better than our own and I do believe we could have an argument for Lyne and Randell when on form.

Gigot vs Jowitt
Tierney vs Jones-Bishop
Mead vs Lyne
Wiliame vs Tupou
Yaha vs Johnstone

Langi vs Miller
Drinkwater vs Hampshire

Simon vs Hirst
McIlorum vs Randell
Moa vs Fifita
Jullien vs Ashurst
Garcia vs Batchelor
Casty vs Horo

Interchanges:

Bousquet vs Pauli
Anderson vs Arona
Edwards vs Wood
Baitieri vs Huby

I understand team loyalty and all, but that's optimistic at best; Gigot, Mead, Drinkwater, Simon, McIlorum, Moa, Garcia, Casty, Bousquet, Edwards and Baitieri are all better than their WT counterparts; some, by quite some margin.

Catalans are an expensive team of internationals - who couldn't (or wouldn't) play to a system or structure - and who's discipline was absolutely awful; like him or loathe him, MacNamara appears to have sorted out their discipline and instilled some really well drilled structure - as a result, they look very impressive.

Reaching the CC final is potentially problematic for ticket sales, but they are definitely there on merit; they made super Saints look decidedly average - and the player most likely to have Sky commentators wetting their knickers, was completely invisible.

You clearly highlight their spine is better than ours in all those key positions that's why they are better not similar to us but on our budget we play bloody well

I'll give you Gigot, Mead and Drinkwater. They are much better than Jowitt, Lyne and Hampshire however I wouldn't say there are leagues between the rest. I think Fifita is much better than Moa as well.

I agree REDWHITEANDBLUE, we play very well for what we spend.

We have some better players but as said above their spine of Gigot, Drinkwater, McIlorum and add Bird in too are way better than their counterparts.
The others may be just good SL standard but with that spine they play to their best. We would need a Drinkwater type to unleash our best.

As much as McNamara is getting some praise, his valuable input has been to recruit a scrum half who can lead and get the others to follow.

Chris Sandow?

Am I the only one that does not rate McIlorum to the level he is talked up to? I am not saying what we have is better but I just don`t see the hype and never have really. When he was younger his defense was aggressive and that seemed to gain him a lot of plaudits, now he has slowed down a little that side of his game has just makes him a liability. A few years back there were arguments going on about who was better out of him and Roby - For me McIlorum has never been in the same league as Roby.

At this stage, would you really jump at the chance to swap Wood with him? I know who I would rather have in my team.

ok maybe its a bit of a dig at salary paid to the quality of a player but when does an player reach a better price tag, when other clubs are interested in them, so what make a player be wanted
1 experience as the yrs go by
2 bulk up in strength and size or slim down to become more nimble
3 become faster and speed up
4 show better skills through training
5 become a leader from the front

I don't think Amos or Tautai have broken many pots since leaving us but both are in a sides that spend the cap, Atkins too moved from us all have won medals so we did have players that could just go that bit further so why can't we have players do it now where they are

had we got just had a few games gone the other way we would of been in 5th and others would be looking at us the way you are looking at the top 4 teams salary cap spend or not, we could end up in 8th and I will always look back and see what they have achieved,

next year I believe will be our best year as we will have learned from this one

It's a testament to the high standard of players they have when their best forward Bousquet rarely gets a mention.

I think Bousquet is just the type of player that we are missing in the pack here, constantly punching holes in the defense, landing on his front, getting a quick play the ball. As you say he very rarely gets a mention and a lot of his work seems to go unnoticed to most but he sets a great platform.

Like Simon when he came over, the problem is with a lot of these French lads; they get home sick and generally don't last very long.

Not sure what the stats say, but I wouldn't mind betting he's not far off the top for offloads.

3rd on 39 offloads so far this season.