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| Quote ="vastman"We've been through why that isn't true, how long is this myth going to carry on.
I'll try one more time!
Ted borrowed against the ground to raise the money required to pass the franchise for 2007/2008 - remember them.
He did this because it was the only way to raise capital and hardly uncommon in business - HE DIDN'T FLOG IT for heavens sake he used it as security. He was especially confident to do this as Deputy Council Leader Denise Jefferies had stood up in front of a packed meeting and told everybody Thornes was a goer.
It's easy to blame in hindsight and for me Ted made a poor choice and should have bluffed it but as I say that's easy for me to say.
Finally even if Ted didn't sell the ground I suspect it would have been swallowed up by the receiver in 2010 and used to pay debts so it makes little difference.
The clubs demise goes a lot further back than just the Ted regime and it's not the first time we've gone bust is it - we have been an unstable club since the early 1980's.'"
The 'myth' will go on because it isn't really a myth, it is kind of what happened. Around 2007/early 2008 Ted DID sell the ground, to a group called the Tillion Partnership (a group of companies he was involved with, i forget their names), for just under £3million, with £1.2million of that paid up front, money that was borrowed from the Bank of Ireland. That money stopped the club going belly up there and then but it did take the clubs name off the deeds. The plan was to pay the balance of the deal over a long period, or transfer the ownership of the ground back to the club if not, whilst paying back the loan to the bank. When the promised Thornes Park development came along it could be paid off in full with some in the coffers to spare thanks to the sale of BV. It went horribly wrong when Ted's finances hit a wall and the repayments couldn't be made and then the council pulled Thornes Park. On the back of the global financial crash that was a killer double whammy with banks under the cosh and being very twitchy about getting their money back. So they repossessed Belle Vue, we ran out of money and ultimately entertered administration.
Now with a bit of luck we could have got away with it but it was always risky and the timing of events was horrendous. As you say in hindsight Ted probably didn't play it right but given the promises we had been made and given we didn't have a pot to you-know-what in at the time he probably thought he had no option. And you are right that we haven't had any brass for decades and still don't. The sad thing is we have been talking about a new ground for over 40 years and we still are no closer to getting there. It will be the thing that means tough decisions have to be made and MC has one to make very shortly. It continues to be the issue that defines a long list of chairmens legacies.
EDIT - Just seen the other replies but i've typed it now!
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| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"That's how I remember it. If he had used the ground as security, the club would have still owned it. What I don't know is also the following:
1. whether the club would have had the same financial problems if he hadn't done that, because of course the club would have had an asset they could have raised security against
2. whether the club got all of the money from the sale, as I seem to recall also is that the club didn't get all the money for the ground, because wasn't there more to be paid upon a certain contingency being met (moving to a new ground or whatever).
3. whether the ground was sold for its full market value. The owner sold it to himself and his relatives under the guise of a company registered in the Isle of Man, something that didn't seem to come out much later. Did his company pay the full whack?
I would be less blameworthy if he had been open about at the time, or not used it as part of his property portfolio.'"
Neil, its history now and I'm afraid we are where we are and thats playing in a run down ground that's not fit for the 20th Century let alone the 21st Century. Its crumbling and both Michael and Chris as Directors take responsibility for it from a health and safety point but they don't own it, just rent it. It does not meet the minimum standards for a Super League stadium - we don't have enough seats, the floodlights do not provide the minimum requried lux levels by a long way just to name two failings.
It will not be long in my opinion before the RFL revoke our SL licence so we will have little choice to find a new place to play and that will be outside the City. Oh for a Council that supports the only professional sporting club in the City and by support I'm not talking about financial support.
Just got the new book, looking forward to reading it over Christmas.
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| Didn't Ted also get stung with a bad land deal with Trinity Walk/Sainsbury's? Expected land values were hit by the crash of 2007/8 leaving Ted out of pocket?
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat"I have no doubt it was sold with the best intentions and had it not been sold then its unlikely that we'd still be in Super League if in existence at all. Ted is not the only one who has been let down by the Council and Developer.'"
Correct.
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| Quote ="Sacred Cow"The 'myth' will go on because it isn't really a myth, it is kind of what happened. Around 2007/early 2008 Ted DID sell the ground, to a group called the Tillion Partnership (a group of companies he was involved with, i forget their names), for just under £3million, with £1.2million of that paid up front, money that was borrowed from the Bank of Ireland. That money stopped the club going belly up there and then but it did take the clubs name off the deeds. The plan was to pay the balance of the deal over a long period, or transfer the ownership of the ground back to the club if not, whilst paying back the loan to the bank. When the promised Thornes Park development came along it could be paid off in full with some in the coffers to spare thanks to the sale of BV. It went horribly wrong when Ted's finances hit a wall and the repayments couldn't be made and then the council pulled Thornes Park. On the back of the global financial crash that was a killer double whammy with banks under the cosh and being very twitchy about getting their money back. So they repossessed Belle Vue, we ran out of money and ultimately entertered administration.
Now with a bit of luck we could have got away with it but it was always risky and the timing of events was horrendous. As you say in hindsight Ted probably didn't play it right but given the promises we had been made and given we didn't have a pot to you-know-what in at the time he probably thought he had no option. And you are right that we haven't had any brass for decades and still don't. The sad thing is we have been talking about a new ground for over 40 years and we still are no closer to getting there. It will be the thing that means tough decisions have to be made and MC has one to make very shortly. It continues to be the issue that defines a long list of chairmens legacies.
EDIT - Just seen the other replies but i've typed it now!'"
But it is a myth as just discussed.
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| Cheer up itll soon be Christmas and you can have some nuts
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| Quote ="Sandal Cat" Oh for a Council that supports the only professional sporting club in the City '"
The City went out of existence in 1974 when this council became a district. The vast majority of councillors don't give a shat about the City or the name Wakefield. The few that do are so gutless and look after their own political futures they will not do anything about it for fear of upsetting Box.
The sooner we forget about Yorkcourt and the council the better. Trinity as a club doesn't have a future in Wakefield . We should all accept that and if we don't like it just walk away, or continue to support the club wherever it ends up being re established.. I am with the latter option.
F off to Yorkcourt, The council and Box.
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| Wish we had gone down the shared stadium route now.Surely a site could have been found reasonably accessible for Cas and Trinity fans alike. Oh hang on , wouldn't Newmarket have been satisfactory.
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| The saddest part of this is that the council couldn't give a stuff if we move out, they'd probably be happy for us to move out of the area. They're the worst council going, no support what so ever for any sport, iirc Wakefield is the only city which doesn't have a professional football club too. Oh well, at least we have some over priced concrete monstrosities
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| Quote ="thebeagle"Wish we had gone down the shared stadium route now.Surely a site could have been found reasonably accessible for Cas and Trinity fans alike. Oh hang on , wouldn't Newmarket have been satisfactory.'"
was never an option and never will be.
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| Would be an option for me, and I am a 65 year old 'traditionalist'.We will end up sharing anyhow. Be it with another RL club or a football club
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| Quote ="thebeagle"Would be an option for me, and I am a 65 year old 'traditionalist'.We will end up sharing anyhow. Be it with another RL club or a football club'"
Yes we will be sharing and no doubt on reasonable terms.
However my point is in respect to Cas, it would never be a share it would be terrible one sided agreement to play in a stadium totally owned and controlled by Cas and charged an extortionate amount for the privalage
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| Quote ="bentleberry"The saddest part of this is that the council couldn't give a stuff if we move out, they'd probably be happy for us to move out of the area. They're the worst council going, no support what so ever for any sport, iirc Wakefield is the only city which doesn't have a professional football club too. Oh well, at least we have some over priced concrete monstrosities'"
In the last few years:
Wakefield AFC....GONE!!!
Wakefield RUFC.... GONE!!!
Wakefield CC....GONE!!!
Wakefield Trinity RLFC....(almost) GONE!!!
Just to rub salt in the wounds:
Wakefield Central Post Office... GONE!!!
Wakefield Police Station.... GONE!!!
Wakefield Magistrates Court.... GONE!!!
The Diocese of Wakefield.... GONE!!!
Bl***y Disgusting!!!
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| Quote ="Redscat"In the last few years:
Wakefield AFC....GONE!!!
Wakefield RUFC.... GONE!!!
Wakefield CC....GONE!!!
Wakefield Trinity RLFC....(almost) GONE!!!
Just to rub salt in the wounds:
Wakefield Central Post Office... GONE!!!
Wakefield Police Station.... GONE!!!
Wakefield Magistrates Court.... GONE!!!
The Diocese of Wakefield.... GONE!!!
Bl***y Disgusting!!!'"
Only reasonable sized sports club left with in the old City boundary has not adopted the Wakefield 'title'. Good job for them it seems to be the kiss of death.
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| You could even add the Market to that list and cinema on Kirkgate.
It closed nearly 20 years ago and the building is still derelict.
Just walking through the city the whole place at the moment seems really dull and depressing.
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| Quote ="Eastern Wildcat"You could even add the Market to that list and cinema on Kirkgate.
It closed nearly 20 years ago and the building is still derelict.
Just walking through the city the whole place at the moment seems really dull and depressing.'"
Ah but you got a new coal bunker didn't you (next to Chantry Bridge if you don't know what I am referring to) and another classic monster on legs that serves as the county archive building!
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| We certainly did.
I pass the monstrocity twice a day on my way to and from work.
Its an eyesore and a total waste of money.
I actually moved out of the city a while ago and moved back. My Dad advised me against it for the dump it is becoming.
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| Quote ="Trinity1315"Ah but you got a new coal bunker didn't you (next to Chantry Bridge if you don't know what I am referring to) and another classic monster on legs that serves as the county archive building!'"
True :lol never been and no intention of going. Millions well spent
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| Quote ="Eastern Wildcat"You could even add the Market to that list and cinema on Kirkgate.
It closed nearly 20 years ago and the building is still derelict.
Just walking through the city the whole place at the moment seems really dull and depressing.'"
Kirkgate and The Ridings have really suffered off the back of whoever thought it was a great idea to build another 'Shopping ' in the City that is Trinity Walk. Sure it's nice enough but it's come at a cost to the rest of the City . Built at a time when people's shopping habits were changing rapidly to online. Plus the City had enough space anyway because ateotd there's only so many retailers wanting space.
The new little 'Market' that was built to appease those that had owned stalls in the old Market, was nothing short of a joke as well.
For me the only area that's improved the past few years is around the Westgate train station areas and the development they did on the Dairy land, plus Unity Hall. It's far nicer round there than it was and also a lot of the nightlife as moved further down Westagte because of it.
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| Quote ="Shifty Cat"Kirkgate and The Ridings have really suffered off the back of whoever thought it was a great idea to build another 'Shopping Centre' in the City that is Trinity Walk. Sure it's nice enough but it's come at a cost to the rest of the City Centre. Built at a time when people's shopping habits were changing rapidly to online. Plus the City had enough space anyway because ateotd there's only so many retailers wanting space.
The new little 'Market' that was built to appease those that had owned stalls in the old Market, was nothing short of a joke as well.'"
Trinity Walk is a great addition to the City bringing us a much needed department Store and bringing people back into shopping in Wakefield instead of going to White Rose. Stadium wise some people need a right hiding if nothing gets done.
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"Trinity Walk is a great addition to the City bringing us a much needed department Store and bringing people back into shopping in Wakefield instead of going to White Rose. Stadium wise some people need a right hiding if nothing gets done.'"
Most stores basically moved out of the Ridings though and has left others areas of the town looking awful because of it. Like I said it is a decent place but as has had a serious knock on effect to the rest of the town. Similar to what Xscape has done to Cas town in a way. Personally never went to white Rose anyway, Leeds City is where most people I know go shopping.
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| Was remarking to my wife today how the area around Unity Wall had improved and tonight in the dark looked quite inviting .
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| Quote ="M62 J30 TRINITY"Trinity Walk is a great addition to the City bringing us a much needed department Store and bringing people back into shopping in Wakefield instead of going to White Rose. Stadium wise some people need a right hiding if nothing gets done.'"
Glad you said this. If we didn't have TW we would lose even more life from the City. The trick for me is how best to integrate it. My plan would be to knock down Westmorland House and put the market back there (not that I remember it there). This would create the perfect link to both TW and the Ridings IMO and WH is ugly as.
I would also challenge WMDC to buy Clayton Hospital and help the College achieve University status by turning that into its landmark HQ. It can be done and would save a wonderful building and give it real value to our City once again!
Oh, and I'd build a chuffing Community Stadium! Sigh.
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| Quote ="TRB"Glad you said this. If we didn't have TW we would lose even more life from the City. The trick for me is how best to integrate it. My plan would be to knock down Westmorland House and put the market back there (not that I remember it there). This would create the perfect link to both TW and the Ridings IMO and WH is ugly as.
[uI would also challenge WMDC to buy Clayton Hospital and help the College achieve University status by turning that into its landmark HQ. It can be done and would save a wonderful building and give it real value to our City once again! [/u
Oh, and I'd build a chuffing Community Stadium! Sigh.'"
Completely agree with that. If the City could get University status it would do absolute wonders for the City.
Also on Trinity Walk, I think not enough thought was put into how it would effect the rest of the City . I just believe more thought could have been put into the whole thing, including like I said previously how they handled the market.
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| I think Trinity Walk has been a great addition to the City centre. Probably rescued Wakefield from becoming another Castleford. Can't remember the last time I went to White Rose.
Ridings is hanging on by a thread thanks to Primark, M&S, TKMaxx, Boots etc. Nice run of stores along the full length of Ings Road too.
On the negative side Kirkgate from the old ABC cinema up to the Cathedral is awful. Dregs of humanity loitering outside multiple vacant buildings.
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