Fox has many faults, however, he's ten times the winger Mathers is! I've no problem with him going to Rovers if we've a better winger to replace him with. At the minute we certainly don't. Will Sykes, Washbrook and Siejka be going to Rovers too?

Are you ever going to accept that anyone who makes a criticism on here may have a valid point or in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary will you still try to make out all is not as bad as people on here make out.

Clearly is quite desperate for Agar to remain and for us to be relegated.

Fox is/was prone to many a brain fart,but give me a winger playing wing,rather than an average fullback being accomodated on the wing.
Or how about lets have a half back playing half back instead of fullback.
In fact lets have two out of our three signed half backs playing in their recognised positions(preferably Godinet and Sammut,rather than the extremely gash Seika).

Ground breaking isnt it...................................

I think in a past life he played the violin in a band - they did quite a few gigs,last one on a cruise liner - Titanic.

Managed to get us two crucial wins away at the teams sat 7th and 10th in the league.....couldn't quite manage it against the 3rd and 5th placed teams but hey, life goes on!

You cannot have been watching for very long then.

Do you actually face the pitch whilst at the games? Because quite frankly your take on things borders on ridiculous. Being of a positive disposition us commendable but your defence of the indefensible is making you out to look rather daft i'm afraid. I try to stay away frim this mad house of a forum these days because of the 'special' people who seem to populate it these days. But i have to say that if you can't see something is seriously wrong within this team and its structures then you need either professional help or a crash course in what rugby league us about. Still i suppose if living in your fluffy little world makes you happy then carry on i suppose. The rest of us will live in the real world.

Today was a dull as anything i've seen in 30 years and in that time i've watched some turgid rubbish. Something has to change.

Totally agree and I've been watching for 50 years.

Same here.

I have seen some bad teams over 24 years at Bell Vue. But never have i seen Trinity play with no spirit and guts like today. We need to tackle like demons, run hard, and let the likes of Sammut and a few others do the fancy stuff. Get back to basics and play for the club. And if we lose so be it.

Oh that makes it all good then........................im sure after we are relegated those two wins will live long in my memory,not the utter gash hes precided over for the other 85% of the time hes been in charge.

Shame he couldnt have managed a home win against the team in 13th place ,he really would have legend status then......................

Of course I can see what's going wrong, we are getting beaten by better sides, sometimes heavily...

It's because of the financial problems we have had and the lack of resources that we have a squad not as good as 75% of the league....

We have been honest and huffed and puffed our way to 2 good wins away at Hull & Widnes....on the odd occasion the majority of our team will raise to a level enough for us to scrape a result....we've the odd match winner who may pull something out of the bag, in the main though we have struggled....

Our struggles have all been against the teams sat at the top end of the league (barring Hull KR away)

What happens and what has been clear as day in the last two is we are getting murdered around the ruck.....we are too soft in the tackle thus allowing opposition teams to get a quick play the ball.....the good teams have all done this to us....that then puts us on the back foot and gives quality opposition and quality players time and space, which when given can damage you....we are all at seas defensively....I'd say we've been brave still....battled it out, scrambled the best we could but the quality and clinical sides will punish you.....it's down to the qualityof playing staff we have plain and simple....look at the wingers for instance....all absolutely caned on here time after time.....Fox, Lyne, Mathers, Owen today....only one who hasn't really copped it is Riley, and that's maybe because he's a little bit better quality, come from a better side where he's been successful, used to playing well and winning.....all the same criticisms have been given to all our wingers no matter how hard they have tried....same all over the park really....

Around the ruck when we have the ball against quality opposition is exactly the opposite to when we defend.....Our forwards are being comprehensively beaten in the collision....we are being stopped, wrapped up and put on our backs by 3 men tackles....this is what the better teams do best, they slowly peel off and have killed any momentum you are trying to get.....we just can't get a quick play the ball and on the front foot....the better teams defensive line is so well set they are moving up as a unit and stifling us quickly....that has happened against all the quality sides.....that then puts you under pressure.....forwards are catching the ball stood still....halves are getting the ball with very little time to do anything and at times they are trying too hard and forcing passes that are never on.....much easier when you are on the front foot and plenty of time with ball in hand....I'm pretty sure that's not the gameplan and our forwards are professional rugby league players who know to run onto a ball....once you get sucked into a game and are being dominated so much though that kinda goes out of the window.....in games against the lesser sides and teams more on our level we have managed to get rolls on at times and get more on the front foot....

If we had a squad the quality of Leeds or Wigan and our results and performances were the same I would have seriuos doubts about defensive structures, attacking moves etc......I think some people need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise what sort of squad we are running with and then comprehend why we are getting comfortably beaten by top 6 sides.....

Have a look at teams around us in the table with similar resources, similar squads and their results are pretty similar to ours....Salford are a great team to compare ourselves against to see if we are under achieving as much as people are making out....they've had similar shake up of players....not quite as many as ours.....have on the whole, looked to have signed a little better quality and a bit more super league experienced players than us, yet if we had sneaked a win against them opening day we'd be sat above them in the table.....

As the season goes on judge us more on performances against the Bradford's, London's and Salford's....the teams around our end of the table....not the Cas's and Warrington's who are rightfully up the top end....

We were averaging nearly 8000 not long ago. We are no smaller than Warrington or St Helens

The mid 80's were the worst in my 40 yrs. This is the 2nd worst. Its not just defeat, its the manner of them. Unless something changes we are doomed

Why the need to post complete nonsense?

Where exactly does 85% come from, where on earth have you pulled that figure from?

Super League Record under Agar

Wins - 20
Draws - 1
Losses - 47

For a team that's been through what we have in his time in charge how does that equate to 85% utter gash?

Irony alert.

Im talking about his performance levels,not win loss ratios.

If you like stats,how about these stats.

Super league record:

Half Back Partnership = Sammut & Godinet.

Played 4 won 2.
Points for 146 Points against 106.

Half Back Partnership = After the Agar brain fart and splitting the above partneship up.

Played 8 won 2.

Points for 107 Points against 285

We had a perfectly reasonable halfback partnership that should have been allowed to grow,instead that clown of a coach split it up and now doesnt have the humility to accept he cocked up and change it back.
We cant score points not because of the reasons you gave on your lengthy explanation,but quite simply because Agar is not selecting the best pivots in the half back roles,were pedestrian around the ruck and lack creation because of Agars stupid team selections.

Knowing how much you love a stat i'd like to point out that the only two players yesterday that didn't miss any tackles (in a team that missed a shocking 44 overall) were Wildie & Annakin. Whilst the only guy that managed to get over the line was Walshaw. So for me they stood up and showed some of their more illustrious counterparts the way yesterday and for me have all earned the right to keep their places.

Yes I do like stats, although I dont always think they can give a true reflection....how many people for instance would have thought Nick Scruton played that much better than both Kirmond & Anderson?....or is it just that people pick their scapegoats early and make their mind up no matter how someone performs? For me, all those 3 I said had pretty average games, along with the majority of the side....Waslhaw may well have scored but he was woeful in defence down that side along with Owen & Sykes....and Annakin who I really, really want to see kick on and do well just isn't doing it going forward, he's getting slammed on his back far too easily for me.....from the way he's going I'm seeing a carbon copy of Tommy Haughey a few years ago.....outstanding at academy level bouncing players off, running great lines and breaking through at will.....to not having the impact and not being able to break the line at the highest level.....I hope I'm wrong, but that's honestly how I see Chris at the minute....thought the loan to Fev looked good at the time to get him regular gametime and maybe build his confidence a little but it seems a strange call to fetch him back after a game and send Dan Smith there.....bizarre one that for me??

The stats I'm more interested in this season though are our record against the top 6, which we have absolutely no right really to be beating or doing much better than we have with our squad and resources......and against the other teams which certainly isn't that of a team that is getting as much stick and criticism as it is at present......it might just be that we are doing what a lot of people were saying early on this season and targeting and putting more efforts into games we stand a chance of getting something out of....you could certainly make a case for that the way we have performed in the last 4 matches.....getting 2 good wins against mid table sides and losing badly to 2 of the top 5.....might not be nice for fans to see us take beatings but unfortunately when you look at the calibre of players that lined up yesterday for us against a Warrington team who have just come back into form, then that is what's gonna happen.....

So let me get this right, last week you was on here claiming Scott Anderson had a good game against Cas as he made 20-odd tackles and missed none, despite giving us absolutely no go forward. Yet Annakin does the same this week (despite playing out of position, a point you conveniently ignore) and he was average? Whose the one picking out what the want to fit their argument? Can't have it both ways i'm afraid. As for Scruton he was average which actually shows how poorly some of the others played. In fact I thought Kirmo had one of his worst games for us, even though he'd tried his heart out it just didn't happen for him.

As for this bluster you keep coming out with about our performances when playing the top teams well i'm sorry but just rolling over and taking a beating against them is not acceptable whether they are better than us or not. We may not expect to win but there is no excuse for not putting in 80 minutes of effort every week. The occaisional thumping will happen, but we have now conceded 36 points or more in half of our games and it just isn't good enough. Take a look a the crowd yesterday, people are fed up of it. We have always been a team that has been way behind the top clubs yet occaisonly we have sprung a surprise, think of that night at oakwell, or beating Wigan on the opening day of the season amognst others. This lot have just as much talent as those teams but the attitude in those games seems all wrong. If we are 'targeting' games then it is a stupid tactic as it will cost the club dear, folk don't like shelling out £22 to watch the garbage we have witnessed more often than not this year. And if the team think they can just turn it on at the drop of a hat one week then the may just come badly unstuck, it really isn't as easy as that. We might get a result next week as Bradford are as bad as us but i wouldn't put my house on it.

The problem for me seems to stem from the coach and the decsions he is making along with the non-existent structures in place and a sheer lack of motivation and desire. On paper this team is decent, hence why it was able to beat Hull & Widnes but it just isn't doing it nearly consistantly enough. You talk about it being how we do against the sides around us yet this team has lost to both Bradford & Salford already this season, both sides which were just as 'new' or had as much disruption as we had.

You are correct in questioning the ridiculous decision to have Smith playing at Fev on dual reg whilst we went into battle with 3 props. Raleigh is also fit and available but has been left out for no apparent reason other than his face doesn't fit anymore. I am also lead to believe that the treatment of Foxy from our esteemed coach has left a bitter taste in the mouth as well.

Whether you are willing to accept it or not I don't really care but a 3K crowd yesterday speaks volumes, there is something not quite right at our club and it needs sorting sooner or later as the natives have already got restless and left the building. We all want the same thing, a successful Wakefield Trinity, but right now to many already battle weary supporters that seems further away than ever and performances in derby games and the home matches like we have seen over the last fornight is the straw that breaks the camels back.

You might think that 12th is good enough and overall it probably is this year given everything that went on in the off-season. But as people keep saying this team is pretty good on paper and should be at least competive in the huge majority of games and we expect full on effort in every time. And for £22 quid some entertainment wouldn't go amiss either. Sorry but we just aren't getting any of that right now and it just isn't good enough.

I don't recall that about Anderson but anyway it was 30 odd tackles not 20 odd.....my expectations of what they both bring to the team are different too.....Anderson is a straight hard working prop....no nonsense, no flashy stuff, just takes the ball in hard does his tackling, what you see is what you get....he's also an overseas in his first year in Super League....history tells me he will come on a hell of a lot and be a better player the more time he spends here....

Annakin on the other hand has been a big disappointment for me....at academy level as I've already said he was fantastic, ran great lines and broke the line for fun....maybe I'm expecting too much of him but he's not doing what I thought he would....I thought he maybe our next Michael Jackson type player but instead he's going the way of Tommy Haughey.....I know he's only played 3 games this season and to be fair to him it's been against 3 of the better sides but he's our worst forward for average metres per gain....in his last 15 or so matches taking in this season and last he's not made one clean break....to me, that is what he's in the side to do, bust the line?




I don't think we did roll over yesterday.....we had a decent 35 minutes in the first half and then a crazy spell conceding 3 tries in 7 minutes before the break.....we then went 24-0 down after about 6 or 7 minutes of the 2nd half....a team rolling over would have been stuffed by 50 or 60....especially from a team that had just whacked 40 past Saints in it's last game and 40 the previous week....we lost the last half hour 4-12.....it wasn't good to watch but I dont think you can honestly say we rolled over? We didn't quite manage 80 minutes but take the last 5 minutes out of each half and it wasn't the worst....isn't that generally what happens when a lesser side gets beat by a top side...they compete for a good half hour or so and then energy levels drop and the good sides and the quality players take advantage?




The game aint played on paper mate, and anyway that is definitely up for question! Take the 17 from yesterday and go and post it on every other teams board and ask them how many of our players they would put in their first team....London, Bradford and maybe Salford apart I think you would be looking at very, very few....that 17 we had out yesterday certainly aint good enough to be troubling the top 5 or 6 teams IMO....no matter who is coaching us.....we did excellent with those wins at Widnes & Hull but how quickly those are forgotten eh, after 2 beatings of the teams laying 3rd and 5th in the table.....Bottom 4 sides with squads and resources like ours aren't consistent either.....they never have been and they never will be.....you might get a couple of good performances....r.e....Widnes/Hull then you may get a few not so good ones, that happens in every sport I've ever watched......and to be fair, I genuinely believe if we had played both Bradford and Salford 4 or 5 weeks after we did we would have beaten them both....everything was in Salfords favour that 1st day and the short turnaround against Bradford made that outcome a total lottery in my eyes.....as both coaches said afterwards....




As I said it seemed a bizarre decision to me as I think Smith has definitely been one of our shining lights and consistently one of our better players.....I like Raleigh too he gives us exactly what we are missing IMO....a quick play the ball.....I dont know any reason behind it, maybe they were both being saved for next week at Bradford in a hugely important game....if they both play there and play well it may justify yesterday's decision to leave them both out a little? I've no idea on Fox...absolutely no idea at all....another though who's copped loads of stick on these boards, but a player I thought always gave his all....just an average player though....one that we could afford....




Agree.....we all want a successful Wakey to follow....the way I see it though is we are a brand new side this year....a definite work in progress, which will take time.....two wins in our next two games which is definitely achievable then we have gone a long way to avoiding relegation, which whether people like it or not was the aim at the start of the season....a couple of months before the start that seemed very unlikely.....I just think this season so far has been made worse to fans with the combination of Cas doing so well and the return of relegation....that for me has definitely unsettled more people and patience seems to have gone out of the window....

You've made the point 3 or 4 times about how good we are on paper, but again I just dont see it as opposed to other teams in this league Bradford & London apart.....missing 3 or 4 genuine quality players like we have done for large parts will really hurt teams like us?

Was going to add to this topic but I'm so bored reading the back & forth arguments that I cant be bothered now. Please don't reply to upthecats again Boyem.