|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1093 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2012 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Sorry, upthecats but just because we won a game it doesn't make everything Vastman has said redundant. This is coming from someone who finds myself disagreeing with a lot of what he says.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 11913 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| It makes me laugh that some people after winning yesterday think that everything Agar did from the Hull KR to now is completely immune to any criticism. Shipping 100 points between two games against Leeds was completely unacceptable, no matter the quality of the opposition, we're Wakefield Trinity Wildcats, not London effing Broncos!
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 12508 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="Adam_Harrison9"Sorry, upthecats but just because we won a game it doesn't make everything Vastman has said redundant. This is coming from someone who finds myself disagreeing with a lot of what he says.'"
Have to agree.
Im not in the Agar out camp, yet. However in my eyes he has got himself a slight reprieve with those who want him out. A few more wins and he may convince some people he's the right man after all.
1 win is ok, and we are all glad of it. A few more wins in a row then some people may change thier mind.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 3629 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Mar 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Where have I said that Willzay?
I've said on here he's made mistakes....doesn't everyone? All of us who post on here....players....other coaches....it's part of life......the day we get a coach who makes absolutely no mistakes whatsoever will not come....
In my opinion those points I've highlighted from Vastman I think are crazy......in the same way he thinks me not having a problem with Bradford getting two points back is.....
Saying we wouldn't win another game with Agar's crazy combinations......saying it was sabotage by a professional coach in a team selection......saying he has lost the dressing room and it's so clear for everyone to see.....saying Glenn Morrison is the man to come in and do better.......etc....etc....
All points I disagree with and think are totally o.t.t......
There will still be plenty of ups and downs with us don't worry about that......there is at least 8 teams/squads in this league better than us.......that makes us a bottom end team......it's not rocket science in any sport in the World (no matter who your coach is, or how good they are) to expect to raise your game one week and beat a better team and then put in a lesser performance and get beat.....being inconsistent results wise isn't out of the ordinary for a team down the bottom end.......but it won't stop the knives coming back out on Friday should we lose at Widnes.....
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 11913 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="upthecats"
Expecting better results from Leeds twice, Huddersfield away, Cas at home, while in a period of still having to try things out due to hardly any pre season and signing key players late....
As I said, he has made mistakes, but doesn't everyone.....in my opinion though he HAS had a lot of unfair criticism in many instances where he can't possibly do right for doing wrong!'"
The late arrival of key players is a poor excuse as we had a settled 17 against London and Catalans and Saints but then he started his tinkering...
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 3629 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Mar 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| It's a squad game though mate nowadays and things like injuries....loss of form etc will play a part....
There was 2 changes from Catalans to London and then 3 changes from London to St Helens, so not really a settled 17......Siejka arriving was probably the thing that threw the biggest spanner in the works so I believe I was justified in pointing to late arrivals......a fair amount of the tinkering has obviously been to accomodate Harry into the side....
The time to judge on decisions/selections like that though wasn't after 6 or 7 rounds and after a few heavy defeats.....or after Siejka had played a couple of games......it was at the business end of the season.....I wonder in say another 6 or 7 games time how many people will be happy and applauding what Siejka is doing on the field? For that to bear fruit it did cost the team without a doubt.....Agar was in a no win situation with that though because earlier in the season when fans were talking of tinkering with the side and trying new things out they were saying do it against the top teams....well we did that against Leeds twice and Huddersfield.....then with the couple of weeks break all that will have played a part in the win at Hull.....ideally all that could have been done in pre-season.....and if it had, then maybe I would feel more of the criticism may have been a bit more justified.....
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 27039 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2017 | Sep 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Is this the Bradford thread or the "SNIPE AT OTHER POSTERS" THREAD.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 3629 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2023 | Mar 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Sorry mate, my fault......got a bit distracted there....I will say no more
Wouldnt have a problem Bradford getting 2 points back if they have satisfied a few debts here and there.....just hope any possible deduction doesn't have any bearing on who gets relegated.....
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 5091 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2014 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I've said on another thread, as things stand now, if we win four more games between now and the end of the season then Bradford will need to win 50% of their remaining games to go above us.
Getting two or more points back is vital to them or they're down, if they do get points back then our game at Odsal takes on epic proportions
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1780 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2020 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Independent panel giving the verdict I wonder who is on that panel and if it will be announced who sits on that panel ?.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 7594 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2021 | May 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="El Rey"Is this the Bradford thread or the "SNIPE AT OTHER POSTERS" THREAD.'"
There's a difference?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21139 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Ok, Upthecats and others....
No problem with what you are saying but it's on the wrong thread. Leave this one to discussing the Bradford points. We have 20 others about Agar and if you need to chat by all means PM each other.
I'll clean up any follow ups when I'm back on laptop.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15521 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I see no reason why they should get points back; their claim of 'force majeure' is insulting and derisory and it should be treated as such.
However, I have no faith that the independent panel is actually independent; in the same way that the 'independent' accountancy firm who made financial assessments of clubs during the last round of licencing, these things can be foregone conclusions, if the body convening the panel makes clear what outcome it wants.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1780 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2020 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Bren - that's why I wonder if the names of those on the panel will be made public knowledge.Just so we all know its above board
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 5086 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2005 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2022 | Nov 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Unforeseeable - Only to the blind bats who were running Bradford at that time - to the rest of the Rugby League world then it was fairly obvious.
Unavoidable - Only if you make no effort to reduce the playing budget knowing full well that it is far above what you can afford to pay.
If that's the grounds of appeal they should be laughed out of the hearing!!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 567 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2023 | Apr 2022 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| It would be nice at the end of the season to be in a position where we didn't need to worry about Bradford and their points..
I haven't read in depth the appeal or RFL policy to know all the ins and outs to give an informed opinion about whether Bradford should get any or all the points back. Fairness, honesty and transparency is all I want..
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21139 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| To be honest there were pages of upset posters saying how corrupt the RFL was before the decision was made. This gives rise to it all again.
I'm happy with how it was handled first time so lets see if it stays that way.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6297 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"However, I have no faith that the independent panel is actually independent; in the same way that the 'independent' accountancy firm who made financial assessments of clubs during the last round of licencing, these things can be foregone conclusions, if the body convening the panel makes clear what outcome it wants.'"
But it won't help Bradford if it isn't independent of the RFL. Think of the effect of on Bradford of having those six points deducted, in terms of how they presented as a business opportunity and how the players felt about staying, as well as general morale and paying customers through the gates. It wrecked their season.
So how could it possibly do the RFL any good to have any points returned, as it says "you got it wrong and ruined Bradford"?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 17982 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="PopTart"To be honest there were pages of upset posters saying how corrupt the RFL was before the decision was made. This gives rise to it all again.
I'm happy with how it was handled first time so lets see if it stays that way.'"
If it was handled properly the first time around, then how can they justify an appeal ?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15521 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Slugger McBatt"But it won't help Bradford if it isn't independent of the RFL. Think of the effect of on Bradford of having those six points deducted, in terms of how they presented as a business opportunity and how the players felt about staying, as well as general morale and paying customers through the gates. It wrecked their season.
So how could it possibly do the RFL any good to have any points returned, as it says "you got it wrong and ruined Bradford"?'"
The RFL management team clearly has no capacity for forward thinking; hence they are perpetually beset by the unintended consequences of their actions. Bradford are a case in point - many could argue that the RFL's cack-handed attempts to save them has actually made their situation much worse.
I think this one is about appeasing those people who believe that 6 points is too harsh, whilst maintaining the illusion of having followed due process.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 6297 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"maintaining the illusion of having followed due process.'"
That's my suspicion. The rules of natural justice state that a sanction should have an appeal process. I wonder if Bradford threatened judicial review and an injunction to halt the season.
Let them have the appeal. Give them back two points to appease and the lawyers stay out of it. That is probably the thinking.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 27039 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Sep 2017 | Sep 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"I see no reason why they should get points back; their claim of 'force majeure' is insulting and derisory and it should be treated as such.
However, I have no faith that the independent panel is actually independent; in the same way that the 'independent' accountancy firm who made financial assessments of clubs during the last round of licencing, these things can be foregone conclusions, if the body convening the panel makes clear what outcome it wants.'"
You may remember the last round of franchising and the last minute demise of Crusaders saving us, one or two people believed it wasn't us that got saved that day.
Of course no one would believe that an independent body could not have known about said other teams financial problems and of course at the time money was no object for the Wildcats.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 21139 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote ="wrencat1873"If it was handled properly the first time around, then how can they justify an appeal ?'"
Most processes like this have an appeal process built in.
If the answer is that they reviewed it and they still agree 6 points then what's the problem.
If they say circumstances have changed and by the rules some should be returned then that's ok too.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 15521 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2010 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2020 | May 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="PopTart"Most processes like this have an appeal process built in.
If the answer is that they reviewed it and they still agree 6 points then what's the problem.
If they say circumstances have changed and by the rules some should be returned then that's ok too.'"
Most appeal processes (including the RFL's disciplinary one) have an element of jeopardy, to deter non-meritorious appellants; this one doesn't.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1522 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2009 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2015 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="bren2k"Most appeal processes (including the RFL's disciplinary one) have an element of jeopardy, to deter non-meritorious appellants; this one doesn't.'"
These are my thoughts - why wouldn't they appeal ? , there's no reason not to . If there was a chance of a bigger points deduction then maybe they'd think twice , but as it stands ..well you might as well chance you're arm .
|
|
|
|
|