7 games that mean nothing now. This is this season and we have 25 rounds of SL to go. No matter how much people moan on here I doubt anything will change. Carter things Agar is a good coach and I agree - just get behind the lads.

Again from me..

... we all know what has happened over the 2 previous seasons...2 years ago we won the last 8 games (I believe ??) and last year we did the opposite....ups and downs (as is the norm with us !!), but I firmly believe we need to give the PLAYERS the opportunity to show Agar (and us) what they can do.
Believe me, I am as frustrated as you are, but we are all on board the Wildcats rollercoaster together, and now is not the time to throw the driver out !!

Don't get your Kear comments, he's no dinosaur and frankly still has more coaching ability in his left toe than most SL coaches. John Kears simply had enough and who can blame him.

As for the rest of your comments fair enough. However I used the word gut feeling, and my gut feeling says disaster this season if we don't act soon - and by that I don't mean it has to be Agars head, though I fail to see any other way.

To me this feels just like 2006 and I don't think the club could survive another one of those.

Come on Vasty. You started a really good thread but then started getting stroppy with the people who have different opinion.

Personally I don't agree with you.
I think Agar has done a decent job considering where the club has been.

Of course we are all upset about the Bradford game but for every one of those games that was disappointing we have had some great games under Agar. The run to the playoffs was indeed because of Bradford's points deduction but that doesn't mean we didn't do well to get to 9th and put ourselves in that position. Hull KR didn't do it. Neither did Cas.
Equally last year, we had a good chance of doing the same with the two games against Leeds being s close to getting us there. The players put a massive effort in but it wasn't just them, just the same as the loss is not just the players fault.

One of the credits I give Agar is that the players always talk highly of him. Even those that leave don't slag him off. Even John Kear for whom I have I have the greatest respect, was slagged off by some of the players.
When you say the team isn't his team, I only see that caused by the change in the team rather than their bond with him.

Personally, as said above I think this is too early to call.
Morrison is a very good choice as a future Wakefield coach. I'd probably pick him over many others in the game right now. I thought if Kear had kept his job that Morrison would some day take over. But if we did get him, he would I think aim to build a club like Agar is trying to do rather than win some short term games.

So I'd rather keep him and see how things go. There is a long way to go in this season and personally I think Castleford, Hull KR, Widnes all think a bit too much of themselves and that we and Bradford could easily place above them by the end of the season.
We shall see.

so easy.

I'm not frustrate. Teams, coaches and players have a shelf life and I happen to feel Agar has given as much as he is capable of giving. Not his fault and had this not been a P&R season I 'd stick with him, because given time I suspect he could put a good team together.

But we don't have time any more and it's dog eat dog survival now. There is no place for long term thinking now, it's do or die and if you think otherwise you are deluding yourself. I think far to many folk on here either don't know what P&R is like or they have forgotten. It takes a certain type of player and a certain kind of team to pull it off - and I don't think we have either at present.

Unfortunately for Agar the only way the players will be knocked out of there stupor and realise what they are facing is a new Coach. I watched Andy Raleigh play on Thursday - he is a player I admire greatly - yet he was wandering about the park like a lost pensioner - he is a senior player and even he doesn't seem to get the idea. We need 100% commitment and that morel spirit and we need it soon.

Prove me rong Mr Agar and I will be the happiest man around, but unfortunately like it or not the P&R clock is ticking.

You can't just pick out a losing streak as evidence that Agar is not up to it
SLXVII - 13 wins in 27 = 48%
SLXVIII - 10 wins in 27 = 37%
Not the same as 1 out of 7.

I'd like better of course this year but it's going to be a slow start with so many new players.

I don't agree; the modern game got away from him and the brand of rugby we played towards the end of his tenure was, quite frankly, turgid.

Jesus wept I'm not being stroppy as regards their opinion just that they didn't read the post. I'd understand it if I'd put "Sack Agar he's crap" but I didn't did I!

True but then if you remember he had no money, no players and no time to prepare - so Agar gives you exactly the same for exactly the same reasons and he's ok, interesting

I think that was probably the most fair OP I've read for a while to be honest - especially from Vasty who I think at times can interpret things how he wants rather than how is intended (no offence mate)

I'm gonna go out there and say it, but I think you've been told you're struggling that often that you believe it too religiously.

I'd say this is the best squad RA has had at his disposal - and for that reason my opinion is that he shouldn't be sacked based on previous season's form.

I think that the tub should be emptied as far as Ra is concerned this season - as it has been throughout the rest of the club.

2 games in with a newly bonding squad, you would have to start from scratch all over again.

Would it be a bigger disaster to stick by his last month's work, or to throw that all away for something fresh?

To me, the worst case scenario is you pay Agar off - bring in (for example) Morrison, and still only be on 4 points after 10 games.

There's no rosy solution, so I would stand by what RA is in the process of doing to build this squad as a unit

Ah the last refuge of a loser. You get shot to bit's and now pretend you were on a wind up all along. You'll be using the expression you own me next. I've been around to long to fall for that one old lad.

Now go on say it, "sorry Vasty I misread your post"

Vasty

I think you make some valid points, however the sacking of Agar is nothing more than an academic discussion.
The jury is still out for me, but if we get to a point we have played 6 lost 6 then I may be in favour of seeing a change of coach.

However for Agar to be sacked it would need someone running the club to actually come to that opinion and that's the problem. I don't think we have anybody in the club who would know a good coach from a bad one. The people in charge are quite new to the game and still have much to learn rugby wise. Other than Kath who allowed Agar to continue at Hull ,who at the club is going to realise he is actually a bad coach?

I don't think Agar is a bad coach, just not a head coach. Doesn't really impact on your point of which I agree with. Agar is safe as houses. There isn't the will nor the money for it to be any different.

Is agar the man for the job? Probably not, I didn't think so then and I don't think so now, that's not to say he hasn't had his successes.
Is he useless of course not, just look at some of the players he's brought in and look at the kudos he his held in within the team.
Are their motivation issues? Yes, are there game management issues? Yes.
In his defence he was brought in under Glover and Elston and a pack of lies & at that time he was a pretty unwelcome acquisition, but he got on with the job and in season 1 did well, since then he has had far from an easy ride.
To suggest Morrison is anything other than a huge gamble though is nonsense.
Like it or not, Agar has more SL credentials than Morrison, not that that is to say that Morrison couldn't do it, there is just nothing to back up that he could by way of fact.
Who would come to a club like Wakefield, I'd guess only someone with something to prove so I guess one way or another it will come down to a gamble of sorts.

It for me is about frustration.
From the despair of 4 months ago to where we were just before the season started, with bundles of optimism.
If you look at our first three games, Salford, not expected to get much from that but came so close.
Bradford at home, a game that after Sunday's performance, you would have expected us to get the points against a side with a skinny squad than us.
Wigan away on Sun, playing a team that has just played in World Club Challenge and will possibly be feeling the effects come Sunday.
Three games all with a possibility of coming away with something with different factors influencing how to play.
This for me is when your coach earns his corn.

I would say that Agar was still possibly the best coach that we could have got when he was given the job, assuming that the rumours about Powell not wanting to come were correct.
We go a little lucky in his first season, finishing the regular season with 7 wins on the bounce and last season was largely an anti climax.
We had as settled a squad that we have had in many years and for one reason or another we didn't quite hit the mark.
There was plenty of juggling with the squad with Mariano and Vince Mellors, never quite fitting in, although Mariano finished the season as one of our better players.
The main point about last season (and I don't know if anyone is qualified to answer), is the possible effect of our financial predicament.
Although this came into the public domain at the end of the season, were there any major issues before this time that would cause upset within the ranks and with the coach ?
Moving onto this season, it's not reasonable to pass judgement yet.
We've had a topsey turvey close season, with large numbers of our better players leaving which is not Agars fault and yet he is the guy that has to pick up the pieces and create a competitive squad.
Ok, we still have KIrmo, Collis, Mathers and Fox as senior players from last season but most of the rest are either younger players or newcomers and 3 of these have only been in the country for 2 weeks.
On top of this we've had to play 2 games in 5 days, which is difficult enough for any team, but far more difficult for a group of players looking to get to know each other and for Agar to mould into a team.
The problem with this season is the threat of relegation at the end of the year and we have now failed to pick up points in 2 very winnable games.
The team will improve and I still believe that we will avoid the drop.
As for Glen Morrison, I agree that he is a top bloke and he MAY be able to do a job but, it would be a HUGE gamble and not one that we should take.
It could damage our chances of survival and could dent Morrison's coaching aspirations, unless of course he could be successful at Wakefield, in which case the opposite would be true.

We have to face facts that, at this moment in time, we are a lower end SL club, with a chequered financial record and unless MC is successful in steadying the ship and helping build our reputation in the RL world, we will remain in this for position .

Of course, IF Newmarket becomes a reality, we could start to grow and hopefully become a major force in the game.

We should of gone for Daryl Powell when he was at Featherstone, great great coach who set the benchmark for the rhinos team we all see today. Worked wonders at Featherstone and is doing the same as Cas in making them a well drilled team. Agar is cut from the same cloth as Cullen,with both having huge funds available to them but both doing absolutely naff all. Both can talk the talk and attract decent players whilst also having the players respect. Ultimately both are proven failures

Nothing to do with any wind up dear,just how you get so wound up because some if not all disagree with you,the wifes a bit like that,hold on a minute



no she's making tea,phew.

You are joking aren't you?

At Hull FC!!!

The style of play and structures are much improved; it's more often than not execution that lets us down.

And if you want a grown-up discussion, lay off the juvenile lolling smilies - it doesn't help.

Your right wrencat it would be a gamble for Morrison match more than us shall I tell you the differancebetween Morrison and agar glen treats all players with respect that's why he gets the most out them the same can't be said for agar who certainly has is favorites and his treatment of walshaw and wildie is criminal, didn't go to Salford but those two are the equals if not better than Ryan and godinet,who id been led to believe were our saviours,on their displays against Bradford I don't think so and don't give me the only just got off the plane excuse, you can always see a bit of class if its there , ,the halfbacks passing was dire and the centre /second row looked second rate

Stick with Agar and he get you 7 to 9 wins this season IMO. A one in three / one in four ratio - Will that be enough though. That is the question ?

Vastmannn - I can't believe my cheese and pickle sarnies were considered to be pathetic - they were actually very nice and I would have made you some if iI thought it might have calmed you down.
Would you have preferred egg mayonnaise?