Playing some one out of position when they are undersized to play that position is rarely going to get the best out of a player

Defensively I'm happy with Southern,

I do agree that a captain is some one that will play 80 mins and perhaps he will play 80 mins once he's playing in the backrow on a regular basis

Its also a well know fact that some new players and in particular overseas players can take time to settle in, as in any job for that matter

Only time will tell but I personally after only a few games wont be jumping on his back

I like Frankie, but our real problem has not been scoring tries, it's been stopping the tries. Over the last few weeks we have been competing with sides scoring like for like and nearly winning, but this has covered over our real problem which is defence. Now that we have been kept scoreless it stands out as our real problem and is something that needs to be addressed.

Southern can certainly do this, and this is where (IMO) we need to work more on, and have the right people in the squad to be able to do all the hard work just as much as you need the people on the field to score the tries. You keep a team from scoring, your half way there to winning

Southern is class and showed that in the early games - his defence is outstanding and in his natural position, he runs good lines and causes problems.

As for the captain issue - that could be easily solved by introducing a vice captain; I'd use Mathers, as a senior player and someone with experience in big games. More urgently however, I'd get the prop situation resolved so that Southern isn't forced to play as a battering ram and end up bashed up and spelled for long periods.

i think he's solid, but class? not on evidence to date. like many have said, playing him at prop is doing him and us no favours at all. if we're going to pay top dollar for an import, we should at least seek to get maximum value from him and not use him out of position.

We do have a vice captain, isnt it kirmo ? Didn't he lead out the players in London ?

Do you know how much he is earning? I would imagine we will be paying Ali for example, alot more than him? i dont know for sure, just guessing. I may be wrong and so be it, i just wondered if you know for sure as you seem pretty certain he is on "top dollar"

Defensively solid players always get the stick. His tackle stats dont lie. I would also like to see him on the field more, but if you are going to use him as a battering ram down the middle, that is what you will get.
For me he is doing exactly what i thought he would before he arrived just for less minutes.He doesnt look as fit as i would like, but maybe they are trying to bulk him up??

If you were expecting a Clyde, Watmough like player you will be dissapointed. If you were expecting a solid defensive second rower who has then been asked to play out of position, i think he has been there or there abouts.

I heard an interview with Southern on Radio Leeds a couple of weeks ago and he said that he was struggling a bit to settle.
He said this was not due to the club, whoe were doing everthing to help, but mentioned that his partner was struggling to settle abnd he inferred that
this was not helping his rugby.
Je seemed pretty genuine and also said that it was up to him to sort himself out.
In fairness he went well against Catalan and along with the rest of the team was poor on Saturday night.
We just have to hope that Saturday was a blip and that Southern will find his form.
He is a quality, no nonsense player and he can certainly do a great job for us. Lets hope he can sort himself out and in turn this will lift the team.

fair comment. i'm not having a go at him, i just think that if we're paying over £80k for a player, then it should somebody game changing - or at least somebody that gets more game time.

i fear that we've seen this before, and that we have an nrl player that won't see his contract out because of personal reasons. how many women would want to travel half way round the world and have their first child away from their support network?

You entitled to your opinion as is everyone on this forum and im not saying your wrong im saying that i think different and im sure alot of people agree with you just as some will agree with me.Sorry if i came across abit rude, The point i was trying to get across is is a forward really known for been fast and scoring tries ? Not many people really appreciate the work these guys do and it often goes unnoticed, Yeah southern is nothing fancy but hes there to make the hard yards, Tire the oppositions pack, and tackle like a machine. The guy is hard as nails and never takes a backwards step and very rarely comes up with an error.Nothing fancy but gets the job done.

If you want to question player payments try Wilkes and Ellis first.

The Wilkes one crossed my mind too as i know he left to go to London for alot more money, more than double what we were offering. He may have taken a drop to come back, i dont know??

As for Southern, he was playing reserve grade over there. I cant see him getting mega bucks. Wont be the highest earner, but wont be at the lower end either. I would imagine that the players that had other offers ie, Ali, Mellars, Wilkes, Ellis, Fox & maybe Smith will be the higher earners. With maybe Raleigh & Kirmo not far off having come from Ken Davy's payroll.

Like i say, its all guess work. Irrelevant of what any of them are paid. Saturday was not good enough.

Trying to guess wages is not very helpful - they're paid somewhere between what they and the club thought they were worth when the negotiations took place.

All that matters is that Saturday's display is proven to be a blip, when they go out on Friday night and play with effort, endeavour and sufficient enthusiasm to play a jaded Cas side off the park; if not, I'll worry.

he is not on 80k , i doubt any of the other guys are.

have you ever been in the superbowl car park and seen their cars???????????

very few superleague players earn 80k i would say around 10% earn that or more at a push.

to put things into perspective i know for a fact that when winterstein signed for us he earnt 32,500 pro rata for his short stay.

the vast majority of our squad will be earning between 20 - 40k

do the math 20 players x 25k = £500,000

what is our turnover? cant be more than 1.5 million ?


Simples

Yes, he does look jaded, didn't know about his wife and baby, he does look tired and maybe needs a paternity break for a couple of weeks. He looked well battered in the post match interview. We certainly don't want another Tronk scenario. Probably the wrong choice as captain as he is playing an alternative role and not on the field enough.
Mainly, the half backs need to spark to take the pressure off him and others.

Lauititi was a poor mans version of Solo, at the moment with injuries and fitness I think I'd rather have ali.

Southern should possibly be back on the bench with Kirmond & Lauititi in the second row. Think like alot of others Southern looks unfit although not as bad as what Hickey was last season. If he is carrying an injury then rest him completely and get him and Collis right. If personal problems then 2 weeks off at least is a must.

Ellis tackles like a machine aswell and gets good yardage from dummy half and if he can be incorporated in the 17 with Aiton to loose and Washbrook on the bench then why not? Somone earlier mentioned 3 hookers in the team but Wood could interchange with Ellis and keep Aiton on at loose for the full 80 with his tackling technique.

Need to concentrate on the ruck area as that has been one re-emerging trend in the season so far along with the inability to deal with the high ball on our own try line. I'm sure R.A. is banging his head against a brick wall in training week in/week out working on these issues.

They were great against Catalan and Warrington so one week doesn't make a bad team.

Anyone describing Southern as class / quality needs there head looking at and should watch some 1/2 decent teams to understand what class is. I'd describe Westwood, Wilkin etc as Class / quality some might say world class.

The difference between Southern and individuals like Westwood is huge...

Southern is an average import that does a job plodding in, and some good defending nothing more nothing less.

We have very few class players at Wakefield.. Fox / Smith (on his day), Aiton, Amor, Ali Southern is certainly not one of them.

The only 'class' players we have are Tim Smith and Paul Aiton. Southern is a grafter much like Duncan McGillivary and Monty Betham. The problem is that we have too many 'grafters' in our team who are tied to our club! We gave 3 year deals out willy nilly, including one to a player who has not played this season at all.

At this moment in time I'd describe McGillivary & Betham to be head and shoulder above Southern..

Im not writing him off just yet but needs to up his game like a lot of other players...

There are others in the team who I am more worried about than Southern, every team does need a grafter or two I appreciate he has his value. I am more concerned that strike players aren't firing, Vince Mellars looks crap and ineffective and has an inability to pass to his winger. Issac John...well, I don't know! Cockayne has been rewarded with a 2 year extension despite conceding more points than he has scored. Fox is as ever suspect in defence.

We have Wildie, Tony and Ellis rotting in the reserves and I am thinking we need to give them the chance, could they do any worse?

Steve Southern is a good solid player no more no less, i think people on here expected him to be bursting through defences like Tony Williams and hit players like Sam Burgess. Not a prayer. How many games has he played prop againt players in excess of eighteen stone. He weighs about fifteen stone FFS.

And that is why our game is in the state it is..average player wont let you down but an overseas player over here taking the place of a homegrown / English player.

Southern is a grafter. His loss of form maybe due to having a newborn and him and his lass not having family to fall back on. But his wife was preggers when he signed he knew what he was involved and is well paid so hopefully things will settle down.

If he wants out of the club, id sooner him do it now rather than hang on for the rest of the season as thats not going to help anybody especially as hes the captain.Im not sure if the club knew his partner was pregnant or not when he signed for us but it appears to have certainly backfired plus maybe hes never fully recovered from his injuries? when he signed i expected him to be a hardhitting 2nd rower who could do the full 80 minutes as he used to get alot of game time with the cowboys in the nrl when he was there.

Where have all the drama queens suddenly come from.

He is a tough tackle and a decent ball carrier. He seems to the most driven so got the captains band when there was clearly no other option.

I've seen him play very well this year. We are battering him in the front row so won't get his best now but that's what we actually need as we ate lacking props.

One poor game and everybody starts moaning. They need more time....and more support from us than that.