Macs are overpriced from start to finish.

The hardware is a total rip off and is always a step behind PC, but still costs more!

The software is so tightly controlled it borders on fascism. Why? So they can make more money! There are serious limitations on mac software in certain fields (scientific for one) and I would be very careful before spending thousands on a box because "it looks pretty". The virus argument in favour of macs is a valid one, but I cannot and will not bring myself to buy a mac until they drop the whole pathetic "you aren't cool if you don't buy a mac" thing. Being told what to do by your technology is not cool, it is lazy.

If you are an engineer or graphic designer or music technician, buy a mac. If not save yourself a huge wad of cash and buy a pc.

I have been told (although never tried myself). If you really really want a mac, buy the cheapest one you can find with an OS, build your own PC and then install the OS on the PC (whilst obeying all laws obviously) and pay for the OS upgrades. You will have a much better much cheaper box of hardware but still have mac software.

Just switched to Mac myself and really pleased with it.
The NHS discount makes a real difference.
I got it on line but went into KRCS in Leeds to do my research.
Apple stores are otherwise Manchester or Sheffield.
I got the 30 day free trial of pages(word), numbers (excel) and keynote (PowerPoint). They're only about £14 each from the app store. I didn't bother with numbers.

Probably the silliest statement I've ever read within one of the poorer posts - I really can't believe that you actually believe this and it's just a wind up. Still opinions and all that.

I'm not anti PC they have there place just, but never in the last 20 years have Microsoft or the jerry built clones they run it on ever been ahead of Apple or even close, even Bill Gates would concede that.

As for tightly controlled - this would be the same Microsoft who were taken to the Supreme Court and told to release it's iron grip on browser software for Window which Gates and Co fought all the way because the greedy pigs clearly hadn't fleeced folk enough with his second rate crud already!

As for being lazy, it just shows how folk like you clearly mis the point. Most people don't have the time or inclination to mess about as you suggest with OS systems, they simply want something that works and will pay for it. Until Microsoft along with the manufacturers continue to produce stuff that doesn't do what it promises Apple will continue to prosper.

Geek fight!

If I were a geek I'd love PC's, trust me I was and remain a reluctant user of this technology - my life was way better and wealthier when it was film, pen and scalpel!

I like Macs because non geeks like me can use them successfully JUST - so I'm afraid on this one Bren old boy you're a million miles off the mark.

I started out with a ZX81 and have owned every conceivable personal computer since then, with the exception of a Mac; I spent the 90's building and modifying my own PC's as a 'power gamer,' constantly striving to get the best sound, graphics and processing speeds out of my Frankenstein's machines; at one point, as an Everquest addict, I was squeezing so much juice out of two heavily modded towers that I had to run them with the cases off and an array of desk fans in strategic places, to prevent overheating.

I'm as geeky as they come, or at least I was, so no slight intended with that comment really; just a lighthearted observation about the PC vs Mac argument; it's been exercising tech geeks for decades and looks set to continue unabated.

the only problem i've had with the mac is that vastman has tried to face time me.

I didn't feel sighted, just needed to correct you - I only love Apple stuff because it works and the simplicity of the Mac was enough to keep me in a job when it went digital and even then it was a close run thing. I have real reason the be thankful to Steve Jobs, he's kept a roof over my head

As if I know what that even means

He changed the world, several times over, and kept a roof over lots of people's heads in the process, no doubt about that.

The geeks have truly inherited the earth.

What have microsoft got to do with hardware? Do you know what hardware is?
Let me educate you.
An imac - For your £1,649 you get a core i5 3.1ghz, 4gb of mid range ram, 1TB HDD and a 6970HD radeon. PATHETIC!
I could build a PC with a better spec for half that.
Still if you want to buy over priced crap that comes in a pretty box go for it.



How the hell can you say apple have always been in front for the last 20 years? What planet are you on? Mac only started using intel in 2006! Before that they were stupidly underpowered and a laughing stock. And as for the fabulous apple and their creations, why do ipods use USB and not firewire?



You are very narrow minded when it comes to software. There is more to life than an OS. IF the software does exist for mac the chances are it will cost a fortune. That's if your lucky. The number of times someone I work with hasn't been able to do work because they have a mac and the software doesn't exist for it is laughable.

Quote ="bren2k"He changed the world, several times over, and kept a roof over lots of people's heads in the process, no doubt about that.'" Good for him. What a guy... www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... contractor The continuing reports of deaths and distress at Foxconn have created a PR problem for Apple, which is seen as the principal user of the company's facilities.

Quote ="bren2k"He changed the world, several times over, and kept a roof over lots of people's heads in the process, no doubt about that.'" Good for him. What a guy... www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... contractor The continuing reports of deaths and distress at Foxconn have created a PR problem for Apple, which is seen as the principal user of the company's facilities.

All I can say is that I am writing this on an iMac, which is pretty powerful, and I am in a room with no other sounds. And all is silent. No fans. Just silence.

I have no issues with PC's, and in some respects I find them easier to use. I understand how they work better and am probably more adept at sorting out problems with them. But the silence is beautiful. My last PC was pretty powerful, and my wife's hairdryer was quieter.

Quote ="RebelRebel"Good for him. What a guy... www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... contractor The continuing reports of deaths and distress at Foxconn have created a PR problem for Apple, which is seen as the principal user of the company's facilities.'" And for the sake of balance, from the same article: "The FLA inspection came at the prompting of Apple, the first technology company to join it. The FLA aims to end sweatshop conditions in factories."

Quote ="RebelRebel"Good for him. What a guy... www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... contractor The continuing reports of deaths and distress at Foxconn have created a PR problem for Apple, which is seen as the principal user of the company's facilities.'" And for the sake of balance, from the same article: "The FLA inspection came at the prompting of Apple, the first technology company to join it. The FLA aims to end sweatshop conditions in factories."

You are using the same words as me but to you they seem to have a completely different meaning than to the rest of humanity. This is always the case I find with PC types.

Not to much point carrying in this debate because you are clearly wrong but will never accept t but I will pull you up on one point if I may...

"An imac - For your £1,649 you get a core i5 3.1ghz, 4gb of mid range ram, 1TB HDD and a 6970HD radeon. PATHETIC!
I could build a PC with a better spec for half that."

Well no you couldn't.

1: It wouldn't be a mac it would be a collection of second rate bit's held together by gaffer tape and wires - rather than a one piece wonder



2: It wouldn't have OSX on it, it would have Windows which is in every way inferior.



3: You would have to build it, something Apple have always done for me as part of the deal



4: Only someone who takes their opinion too seriously would describe the worlds most popular personal computer as PATHETIC



5: Whilst you could build a PC for half that price I can visit the Apple shop and buy an imac for a bit over half the price you are claiming (£999 + vat) - which shows to me that you just don't and probably never will get this Apple thing. The thing being that Apple supply a computer that works straight out of the box without you having to do anything more than PLUG IT IN

Amen brother.

I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. Leave us mac boys to it while they are shutting down and rebooting or uninstalling and reinstalling......

if you wanna pay more money for less spec, got ripped off on repairs and parts, have a smaller array of compatible software and generally be more restricted in what you can do...then go for the mac. But on the bright side, you will be down with the cool mac kids

I would have bet money 'mouth' was a mac user...

You can run OSX on a PC if you really want.

Yeah, but you wouldn't

One of the great myth of all time Linky and deep down you know it.

1: You don't pay more money for less spec, Apple gives you the spec you need.

2: You don't get ripped off for parts. For a start because Macs are built to last you never need them. Also Apple parts are manufactured by one manufacturer and carry the Apple badge and are 100% compatible and genuine. Yes you may pay more but you know what you're getting.

3: True, nowhere near the amount of third party software. However as 90% of this software either doesn't work or more likely clashes with other software or worst of all is riddled with viruses then I really don't care. Conflicts and viruses simply do not happen on Macs, which is why PC world sell Macs but don't offer a repair service, as this would be the least busy job at PC world!

4: As for the cool jibe, that's getting a bit desperate as an argument isn't it?

I'm not preaching an all Apple world, that would be awful. If you just want to surf the net, play games or use it to crunch numbers and create spread sheets, by a PC by all means. If you are a home user who wants a bit of everything with zero hassle buy a Mac. If you want a computer for use in any of the creative industries you would need to be certified insane to buy anything but a Mac.

Final final word because even I'm bored now. PC users remind me of those young men who buy a bog standard Corsa for 1k, spend 25k on it to create a monster that works occasionally and claim it's as good as Golf GTI. It may be when it works but for zero effort and the same money they could of had the GTI, run it for two trouble free years, found a girlfriend and have a car that they could actually sell on and not lose anywhere near as much money on it. As a sane person I always ask why would you do such a thing

I suppose I shouldn't be but here I am again surprised by how fervent each side is in this argument. I've bben in IT for 45 years now and have used everything from mainframes which would almost fill Belle Vue to smartphones and tablets. Because of this people often ask me which is best PC or Mac and my fisrt question is what do want to usee it for. The next is how much do you know and eventually how much do you want to spend. It's horses for courses really. For once I agree with vastman that if you just want to to buy it plug it in and use it without even having to open a guide let alone a manual then get a Mac if you can afford it. They have (rightly) turned the computer into an item of "white goods" like a washing machine - it just works. You do pay a penalty in price, software choice (and no not all PC software is riddled with viruses despite what many may say) and customisation but if that doesn't concern you (and I guess that means most people) then it's a fine choice. Always well built, usually reliable (although any repairs are costly) and it looks good.

A PC will cost less and allow you do do many more things but that has it's price as well - it needs much more user involvement in the management of it. The hardware is usually as reliable because they use exactly the same components (video cards, motherboards even) but each manufacturer puts them together as they see fit and to a budget - usually a low one. Now there's nothing wrong with this and many PC usres have been happily using the same machine for years without a problem. One of my PC's still used for web browsing is well over 10 years old and still going strong (slowly though as any 10 year old machine is). There is though a greater degree of variability and everyone tells the tale of the ones which went wrong - not the ones that were OK. More care may be needed when choosing one and even this is difficult because of the bewildering choice.

The OS is what most people interact with and call it the PC or Mac. Yes, OSX is more reliable and is arguably better but remember the "X" came from the fact that it could be said to be a derivitave of Unix and Linux - not really an original Apple idea/product. Windows has to cope with an "open" hardware system allowing many more choices and that is its problem and its advantage - the sheer flexibility. You could go for Linux (Ubuntu) on a PC and have the best of both worlds but that is still not as polished a software product as OSX.

Where does that leave us? What do want to use it for? How much do you know? How much do you want to spend? Answer those (and a few other questions) and then you'll find the best answer for you.

Arghhhhh! The nerds have taken over the building!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i now consider anyone who hasn't got a mac to be a bit dense.

Yes - they do that don't they? All part of the marketing plan - you have been brainwashed!